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PostPosted: Mon 12.14.2009, 23:46 
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The players leaving the Mariners and Phillies to complete the deal have yet to be announced, but the possibilities are tantalizing: Philadelphia’s top pitching prospect Kyle Drabek, outfielder Michael Taylor and catcher Travis D’Arnaud, and any number of players from Seattle – kid shortstop Carlos Triunfel, pitchers Brandon Morrow(notes) or Phillippe Aumont, outfielders Michael Saunders(notes) or Tyson Gillies.


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PostPosted: Tue 12.15.2009, 00:06 
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Heard just now unofficially......

Jays get : Kyle Drabek, outfielder Michael Taylor and catcher Travis D’Arnaud

Mariners get : Cliff Lee

Phillies get : Doc, Aumont and Tyson Gillies


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PostPosted: Tue 12.15.2009, 00:37 
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Drabek is definitely a solid prospect, but there are a few things that worry me, including his Tommy John surgery already and his terrible attitude.We did land the Phillies 1,2 and 4th ranked prospects, from a very good and deep farm system, so I do feel good about that.

They held out for their guys when Philly pulled them off the table this summer and I'm happy that they won out.

Halladay, I'd like to see you win about 3-5 championships while the Jays are rebuilding. You are a class act, an amazing, amazing pitcher and it's been a pleasure watching you both live and on television over the years. I'm just as upset as you are that your time in Toronto did not go differently and I know that you would have loved to stay and be successful.

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PostPosted: Tue 12.15.2009, 01:19 
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Well Philly fans enjoy Doc. It was a treat to be at 4 of his opening day starts. He is a total pro and all class. You are really in for some fun this season and I wish Doc the best. Go Phils! I am glad he ended up in the Senior Circuit and not with the Red Sox or friggen Yanks.

If what DZ is saying is correct then the Phils made out like bandits getting Doc, Aumont and Gillies. The Mariners get fleeced if this happens. Especially given that Lee is a free agent at the end of the season and wants to be a free agent. Seems like a hell of a lot to give up for a rental.

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PostPosted: Tue 12.15.2009, 14:31 
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Update!

Apparently, the Jays are adding the A's into this deal...

They will move Michael Taylor to the A's for 3B prospect Brett Wallace who is a beast at the plate, but has issues defensively at 3B. They aren't sure if he has the lateral movement to play 3B, but he has the arm strength.

I'm not a big fan of this addition, we're going to need an OF eventually (Taylor, Snyder and Wells makes a decent outfield), and Taylor apparently has similar plate potential. Also, our team has relied so heavily on good defense that all of the sudden, we're abandoning it.

This likely means the end to Overbay's days in Toronto.

Lind or Wallace will likely be moved to 1B and the other will DH.

The deal right now looks like this:

Jays get : Kyle Drabek, Travis D’Arnaud, Brett Wallace

Mariners get : Cliff Lee

Phillies get : Doc, Aumont and Tyson Gillies

A's get: Michael Taylor

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PostPosted: Tue 12.15.2009, 14:47 
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It's nice to see Jay fans wishing him well. It's not the norm when star players depart for other teams.

I was looking at his splits the last 3 years to see if anything surfaced on how he'd fare pitching outside in the NL at a hitters park vs primarily indoors (at home at least) in the AL.

Nothing really jumped out (other than the Rays have had his number the last 2 years) and certainly nothing that should prevent him from being one of the first few pitchers off the board in fantasy drafts next year.


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PostPosted: Tue 12.15.2009, 15:06 
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Wow

Phils crapped the bed on this one

Lee was going to be a huge bargain at his prictag next year and they could have gotten Halladay w/o him. Jays had to get rid of him.


Halladay/Lee at the top of rotation was very doable and would have made them instant favorites to win it all, imo.


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PostPosted: Tue 12.15.2009, 15:15 
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jesteva wrote:
It's nice to see Jay fans wishing him well. It's not the norm when star players depart for other teams.


This isn't the standard "star player leaving situation", this is the greatest player in organizational history who was dedicated and wanted nothing more to win. It wasn't about the money, Roy took lesser contracts many times to stay and WIN in Toronto.

He gave Toronto many chances to provide him with a serious, winning organization, and they failed year after year. He wanted to stay with Toronto as bad as any player in Toronto sports history, he just wanted to win. I can't fault him for that, to be dominant and year after year, have your team be irrelevant, with no sign of progress, it is trying on a competitor like Roy.

Roy gave 150% for his whole career and was one of the classiest men in sports. This isn't a Vince Carter like situation where after years of mediocrity, he gave up on the team and dogged it for his money. Roy gave it his all, knowing full well it was always in vein.

I wish him the best of luck and will be cheering for him for the rest of his career.

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PostPosted: Tue 12.15.2009, 22:01 
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TaZZ wrote:
Update!

Apparently, the Jays are adding the A's into this deal...

They will move Michael Taylor to the A's for 3B prospect Brett Wallace who is a beast at the plate, but has issues defensively at 3B. They aren't sure if he has the lateral movement to play 3B, but he has the arm strength.

I'm not a big fan of this addition, we're going to need an OF eventually (Taylor, Snyder and Wells makes a decent outfield), and Taylor apparently has similar plate potential. Also, our team has relied so heavily on good defense that all of the sudden, we're abandoning it.

This likely means the end to Overbay's days in Toronto.

Lind or Wallace will likely be moved to 1B and the other will DH.

The deal right now looks like this:

Jays get : Kyle Drabek, Travis D’Arnaud, Brett Wallace

Mariners get : Cliff Lee

Phillies get : Doc, Aumont and Tyson Gillies

A's get: Michael Taylor
wallace is solid but i agree we need OF since Ahrens and Cooper are working their way up to take over at 1b and 3b with no real OF prospect besides Snider.


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PostPosted: Tue 12.15.2009, 22:08 
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From Mariners to Phillies:

Phillippe Aumont, RHP
Taken in the first round of the 2007 Draft (No. 11 overall), the 20-year-old Aumont still had a tremendous amount of upside. The 6-foot-7 Canadian has a plus fastball he can throw in the mid-90s and complements it with an above-average breaking ball, a slider he throws in the low-80s that can be a plus pitch as well at times. He's shown a feel for a changeup at times over the past couple of years, but it's far from a perfected pitch.

Playing for travel teams in Canada as a high schooler, Aumont was limited somewhat in the amount of work he could get in. That's continued to an extent as a professional. He signed late in 2007, so he wasn't able to make his debut until the 2008 season. He only saw 55 2/3 innings of work during that debut as the Mariners were extremely cautious with their first-rounder and shut him down for two months when he had a sore elbow. Still, he was a Midwest League All-Star and had a 2.75 ERA and .224 batting average against.

The Mariners, partially because of durability concerns and partially because his two-pitch power mix seemed perfect for the role, turned Aumont into a full-time reliever in 2009. After pitching very well for Team Canada in the World Baseball Classic, he saved 12 games and had a .195 batting average against while pitching in a very hitter-friendly High Desert park in the California League. That led to a promotion to Double-A. He was a bit more hittable there, though he still finished the season with 16 combined saves and 59 strikeouts in 51 innings. He did miss time with a broken left hand when he punched a wall following a blown save. He made up some time in the Arizona Fall League, where he gave up 19 hits and eight walks in 12 innings, but also struck out 18.

Tyson Gillies, OF
Anyone who watched the Futures Game knows what Gillies is about: speed, speed and speed. The Canadian center fielder is a plus, plus in scouting parlance and on the scouting scale, he'd be at least a 70 (80 is the best). He stole 44 bases in 2009 while also hitting .341 for High Desert to finish third in the Class A Advanced California League. He was second with his .430 on-base percentage, drawing 60 walks along the way. His 14 triples (second in the league) are a testament not only to his speed, but also to his makeup. He breaks out of the box thinking three every at-bat. He can play all three outfield spots and has a very good arm.

The 25th-rounder out of the 2006 Draft is a true inspiration. Gillies is hard of hearing, though he speaks clearly and uses hearing aids in both ears. Sometimes, he takes them out when he is playing. He does not shy away from being a role model for others.

J.C. Ramirez, RHP
If you like raw arm strength, Ramirez might be your guy. The 21-year-old was signed by the Mariners out of Nicaragua back in the summer of 2005 and he'd been making his way slowly up Seattle's ladder. In 2008, he pitched for Low Class A Wisconsin. This past year, it was up to High Desert, where the friendly confines of his home ballpark clearly didn't help him. Ramirez had a 6.78 ERA in 17 outings in High Desert. That number dropped to 3.09 in his 11 road starts.

Ramirez still has some projection and upside to him at 6-foot-3. He's already got a pretty good fastball he can crank as high as 97 mph to go along with a very good hard slider. His changeup lags behind, never surprising for a young pitcher, and it's possible he could be a dynamo short reliever when all is said and done.

From the Phillies to the Blue Jays

Kyle Drabek, RHP
The "untouchable" back in July when the Phils talked to the Jays about Halladay, he was now suddenly available and perhaps that was the key to the deal. The 2006 first-rounder (18th overall) missed almost all of the 2008 season following Tommy John surgery, but looked very much like the guy who was the top high school arm in the '06 Draft class during the 2009 season.

The son of former big league hurler Doug, Drabek split time between the Florida State and Double-A Eastern Leagues at age 21. Combined, the right-hander went 12-3 with a 3.19 ERA, a .239 batting average against and 150 strikeouts over 158 innings. He was electrifying during his Futures Game performance, an exclamation point to the statement that he was back 100 percent as one of the better pitching prospects in the game.

Drabek has a fastball he runs up regularly to 92-93 mph, but his best pitch is one of the better power curveballs in the Minors. It's a breaking ball he commands with precision. His changeup still needs some work, but his competitive nature and athleticism should allow him to maximize his stuff. He's likely to need some time in Triple-A to start the year, but he could very well see some time in Toronto's rotation at some point in 2010.

Michael Taylor, OF
Of the two top outfielders in the Phillies system, Domonic Brown had the more dynamic upside, but Taylor was more polished and advanced. Taken in the fifth round out of Stanford in the 2007 Draft, there were initially some concerns about his plate discipline and pitch recognition when he was coming out of college.

He's answered many of those questions by hitting .312/.383/.512 over the course of his Minor League career. He split time between Double-A and Triple-A in 2009 and finished with a .320 average to go along with a .395 on-base percentage, .549 slugging percentage, 20 homers and 84 RBIs over 116 games. He also stole 21 bases, a testament to his baserunning skills as much as his decent speed. Defensively, he's got a good arm and should be fine as a corner outfielder in the big leagues. And he's not too far away. Even if he starts the season back in Triple-A, he's a pretty good bet to see his first big league action in 2010.

Travis d'Arnaud, C
A supplemental first-round pick in the 2007 Draft out of high school, d'Arnaud receives raves for his work behind the plate and showed some signs of life with the bat during his first taste of full-season ball in 2009. He hit .255 for Class A Lakewood in the South Atlantic League, but he upped that to .302 in the second half. He also racked up 38 doubles and 13 homers, showing hints of fulfilling some of his power potential.

When all is said and done, though, d'Arnaud won't have to hit a ton to make it to the big leagues. He works hard on his defense, handles a staff very well and has all the tools to be an above-average backstop, including excellent arm strength. How much he hits might determine whether he's a very valuable backup or a really good everyday catcher down the road in the big leagues.

From the A's to the Blue Jays
(For Michael Taylor)

Brett Wallace, 3B
Wallace is changing organizations for the second time in less than six months, amazing considering he just finished up his first full season after going in the first round of the 2008 Draft. He was the key prospect the Cardinals sent to Oakland in the Matt Holliday deal. The Futures Gamer began the year in Double-A, quickly got promoted to Triple-A and hit pretty much every where he was. He finished the season with a .293/.367/.455 line, and he actually was at his best with Sacramento following the trade (.302/.365/.505).

Coming out of ASU, the hope was that Wallace's bat would carry him quickly to the big leagues and that's proven to be the case. He hit 20 homers in 2009 and there's more power there. The offensive side of the game is ready for a shot at the big leagues. The main question surrounding Wallace is where his home will be defensively. He played third all year, though the A's worked him in at first base a few times after the trade. Heading into the Draft, few felt he'd be able to stay at the hot corner, but Wallace has worked hard on his defense and was intent on proving people wrong. Currently, the Jays have Edwin Encarnacion at third and Lyle Overbay at first, so something would have to give in order for Wallace to get a shot at either corner.


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PostPosted: Tue 12.15.2009, 22:16 
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Top 50 Prospects after 2009 seasons trade deadline...

1 Jason Heyward ATL OF
2 Madison Bumgarner SF LHP
3 Mike Stanton FLA OF
4 Justin Smoak TEX 1B
5 Buster Posey SF C
6 Neftali Feliz TEX RHP
7 Chris Tillman BAL RHP
8 Brian Matusz BAL LHP
9 Jarrod Parker ARI RHP
10 Tim Beckham TB SS
11 Alcides Escobar MIL SS
12 Jesus Montero NYY C
13 Matt LaPorta CLE 1B
14 Wade Davis TB RHP
15 Freddie Freeman ATL 1B
16 Jake Arrieta BAL RHP
17 Jeremy Hellickson TB RHP
18 Yonder Alonso CIN 1B
19 Brett Wallace OAK 3B
20 Michael Taylor PHI OF

21 Carlos Santana CLE C
22 Desmond Jennings TB OF
23 Austin Jackson NYY OF
24 Domonic Brown PHI OF
25 Logan Morrison FLA 1B
26 Kyle Drabek PHI RHP
27 Jason Castro HOU C
28 Pedro Alvarez PIT 3B
29 Mike Moustakas KC SS/3B
30 Eric Hosmer KC 1B
31 Josh Vitters CHI 3B
32 Lars Anderson BOS 1B
33 Tim Alderson PIT RHP
34 Ben Revere MIN OF
35 Christian Friedrich COL LHP
36 Aaron Hicks MIN OF
37 Casey Kelly BOS RHP/SS
38 Martin Perez TEX LHP
39 Jason Knapp CLE RHP
40 Matt Dominguez FLA 3B
41 Michael Bowden BOS RHP
42 Peter Bourjos LAA OF
43 Julio Borbon TEX OF
44 Mat Latos SD RHP
45 Jhoulys Chacin COL RHP
46 Jennry Mejia NYM RHP
47 Derek Norris WAS C
48 Jaff Decker SD OF
49 Matt Moore TB LHP
50 Angel Villalona SF 1B


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PostPosted: Tue 12.15.2009, 22:17 
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dznutz88 wrote:
Top 50 Prospects after 2009 seasons trade deadline...

1 Jason Heyward ATL OF
2 Madison Bumgarner SF LHP
3 Mike Stanton FLA OF
4 Justin Smoak TEX 1B
5 Buster Posey SF C
6 Neftali Feliz TEX RHP
7 Chris Tillman BAL RHP
8 Brian Matusz BAL LHP
9 Jarrod Parker ARI RHP
10 Tim Beckham TB SS
11 Alcides Escobar MIL SS
12 Jesus Montero NYY C
13 Matt LaPorta CLE 1B
14 Wade Davis TB RHP
15 Freddie Freeman ATL 1B
16 Jake Arrieta BAL RHP
17 Jeremy Hellickson TB RHP
18 Yonder Alonso CIN 1B
19 Brett Wallace OAK 3B
20 Michael Taylor PHI OF

21 Carlos Santana CLE C
22 Desmond Jennings TB OF
23 Austin Jackson NYY OF
24 Domonic Brown PHI OF
25 Logan Morrison FLA 1B
26 Kyle Drabek PHI RHP
27 Jason Castro HOU C
28 Pedro Alvarez PIT 3B
29 Mike Moustakas KC SS/3B
30 Eric Hosmer KC 1B
31 Josh Vitters CHI 3B
32 Lars Anderson BOS 1B
33 Tim Alderson PIT RHP
34 Ben Revere MIN OF
35 Christian Friedrich COL LHP
36 Aaron Hicks MIN OF
37 Casey Kelly BOS RHP/SS
38 Martin Perez TEX LHP
39 Jason Knapp CLE RHP
40 Matt Dominguez FLA 3B
41 Michael Bowden BOS RHP
42 Peter Bourjos LAA OF
43 Julio Borbon TEX OF
44 Mat Latos SD RHP
45 Jhoulys Chacin COL RHP
46 Jennry Mejia NYM RHP
47 Derek Norris WAS C
48 Jaff Decker SD OF
49 Matt Moore TB LHP
50 Angel Villalona SF 1B
in Drabek, Wallace, d'Arnoud the Jays get 3 very young former 1st rd picks for Halladay. I would have preferred the BoSox offer of last year more but they made out pretty good here.


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PostPosted: Tue 12.15.2009, 22:22 
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Quote:
The Phillies tried to bait Anthopoulos into such a move, offering the Jays one of two Canadian youngsters from the Mariners, pitcher Phillippe Aumont or outfielder Tyson Gillies, in an effort to keep their own young catcher, Travis D’Arnaud, major-league sources say.


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PostPosted: Thu 12.17.2009, 12:09 
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hankrip wrote:
Wow

Phils crapped the bed on this one

Lee was going to be a huge bargain at his prictag next year and they could have gotten Halladay w/o him. Jays had to get rid of him.


Halladay/Lee at the top of rotation was very doable and would have made them instant favorites to win it all, imo.


I know...not real thrilled about this. Why are we trading an ace for prospects when we are competing for another world series title. Makes no sense. Even if we didnt resign Lee after this upcoming season we would have received compensatory draft picks when he signed with someone else.


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