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PostPosted: Thu 10.24.2013, 08:41 
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Long story - short version

The prevailing wisdom being spouted by those in the know is that delaying the individual mandate will result in healthier folks not feeling compelled in signing up for health care coverage and that the insured pool will be skewed toward sicker folks. This potential is being touted as something that Obama is loathe to allow to happen. It's an inarguable fact that higher insurance premiums for younger healthier people are being used to subsidize premiums for older / at risk health wise people. if the insured population is unbalanced vs the actuarial estimates, the insurance companies lose money and have to charge higher premiums - right?

Not necessarily.

The Obamacare fine print provides the insurance companies providing the actual coverage with "insurance" in the form of payments from the fed gov't from our tax dollars (i.e. increased deficits) that limits the amount of losses that they can incur through the insurance exchange coverage they provide. In the interest of fairness, the fine print also provides that the insurance companies make payments to the fed gov't if the actual claim experience is favorable above stated threshholds vs the actuarial forecasts and caps the amount of gains the insurance companies can experience.

The linked article which is a fairly written fact oriented piece goes into a lot more detail and is a worthwhile read IMO on yet another one of the down-stream potential costs of Obamacare.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-23/why-obamacare-is-like-three-mile-island.html


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PostPosted: Thu 10.24.2013, 09:05 
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jon stewart ripped apart the website....it was pretty funny.

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PostPosted: Thu 10.24.2013, 17:47 
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I was speaking with a 61yr old woman today who told me her insurance company sent her a letter advising her policy was no longer available and that after the first of the year, she would have to re-enroll to maintain coverage. She was encouraged to go to the website, which was an obvious exercise in futility, to see if she qualified for a subsidy; ie some other peoples money. She was quoted a number from her existing provider that was nearly triple he previous costs but she will now have reproductive coverage in case she gets pregnant. Which is unlikely since she had a hysterectomy after complications from a pregnancy 30yrs ago. Oh, she is also covered for prostrate cancer.

FORWARD!!!!

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PostPosted: Fri 10.25.2013, 10:19 
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Black Dog wrote:
I was speaking with a 61yr old woman today who told me her insurance company sent her a letter advising her policy was no longer available and that after the first of the year, she would have to re-enroll to maintain coverage. She was encouraged to go to the website, which was an obvious exercise in futility, to see if she qualified for a subsidy; ie some other peoples money. She was quoted a number from her existing provider that was nearly triple he previous costs but she will now have reproductive coverage in case she gets pregnant. Which is unlikely since she had a hysterectomy after complications from a pregnancy 30yrs ago. Oh, she is also covered for prostrate cancer.

FORWARD!!!!


Perfect! :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri 10.25.2013, 12:07 
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So wait we want young people to pay for Baby Boomers life styles. So what your saying is the health care system no matches governmental policy.

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PostPosted: Fri 10.25.2013, 12:49 
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Black Dog wrote:
I was speaking with a 61yr old woman today who told me her insurance company sent her a letter advising her policy was no longer available and that after the first of the year, she would have to re-enroll to maintain coverage. She was encouraged to go to the website, which was an obvious exercise in futility, to see if she qualified for a subsidy; ie some other peoples money. She was quoted a number from her existing provider that was nearly triple he previous costs but she will now have reproductive coverage in case she gets pregnant. Which is unlikely since she had a hysterectomy after complications from a pregnancy 30yrs ago. Oh, she is also covered for prostrate cancer.

FORWARD!!!!


its amazing how you speak to so many people who affirm your previously determined perspective on the world.

could anyone else see this woman?

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On 10/3/08 Huckleberry wrote:

Something we can agree on DaKlute.


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PostPosted: Fri 10.25.2013, 12:52 
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DaKlute wrote:
Black Dog wrote:
I was speaking with a 61yr old woman today who told me her insurance company sent her a letter advising her policy was no longer available and that after the first of the year, she would have to re-enroll to maintain coverage. She was encouraged to go to the website, which was an obvious exercise in futility, to see if she qualified for a subsidy; ie some other peoples money. She was quoted a number from her existing provider that was nearly triple he previous costs but she will now have reproductive coverage in case she gets pregnant. Which is unlikely since she had a hysterectomy after complications from a pregnancy 30yrs ago. Oh, she is also covered for prostrate cancer.

FORWARD!!!!


its amazing how you speak to so many people who affirm your previously determined perspective on the world.

could anyone else see this woman?


I have no problem with people poking holes in other's arguments, but which part of what he wrote is untrue?

I think you guys are living in a dream world if you think insurance premiums across the board aren't going to go up.

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PostPosted: Fri 10.25.2013, 12:58 
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PostPosted: Fri 10.25.2013, 13:03 
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Griffimo wrote:
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I always thought you looked like Swayze... now you're telling me you look like that? You are blowing my mind Griff!

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PostPosted: Fri 10.25.2013, 13:06 
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Jcb890 wrote:
DaKlute wrote:
Black Dog wrote:
I was speaking with a 61yr old woman today who told me her insurance company sent her a letter advising her policy was no longer available and that after the first of the year, she would have to re-enroll to maintain coverage. She was encouraged to go to the website, which was an obvious exercise in futility, to see if she qualified for a subsidy; ie some other peoples money. She was quoted a number from her existing provider that was nearly triple he previous costs but she will now have reproductive coverage in case she gets pregnant. Which is unlikely since she had a hysterectomy after complications from a pregnancy 30yrs ago. Oh, she is also covered for prostrate cancer.

FORWARD!!!!


its amazing how you speak to so many people who affirm your previously determined perspective on the world.

could anyone else see this woman?


I have no problem with people poking holes in other's arguments, but which part of what he wrote is untrue?

I think you guys are living in a dream world if you think insurance premiums across the board aren't going to go up.


i don't know.

medical insurance premiums have been going up for how long? nothing new here.

but politifact says:

Our ruling
Quote:
Hannity said premiums are skyrocketing and the average man would pay twice as much, while the increase for the average woman would be 62 percent. That claim relies on a study that focused on the individual marketplaces for insurance set up under Obamacare, a subset of people who purchase insurance. Regardless of the accuracy of the analysis, it spoke to the experience of a small minority of Americans, and it did not factor in the subsidies that will cushion some people from increased premiums.

Hannity overreached in his remarks on radio.

That said, new rules for insurance plans will tend to push some rates up -- because the plans must provide better coverage. But by how much depends on a host of factors that several leading health policy experts say is too difficult to estimate.

We rate this claim Mostly False.

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On 10/3/08 Huckleberry wrote:

Something we can agree on DaKlute.


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PostPosted: Fri 10.25.2013, 13:22 
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DaKlute wrote:
Jcb890 wrote:
DaKlute wrote:
Black Dog wrote:
I was speaking with a 61yr old woman today who told me her insurance company sent her a letter advising her policy was no longer available and that after the first of the year, she would have to re-enroll to maintain coverage. She was encouraged to go to the website, which was an obvious exercise in futility, to see if she qualified for a subsidy; ie some other peoples money. She was quoted a number from her existing provider that was nearly triple he previous costs but she will now have reproductive coverage in case she gets pregnant. Which is unlikely since she had a hysterectomy after complications from a pregnancy 30yrs ago. Oh, she is also covered for prostrate cancer.

FORWARD!!!!


its amazing how you speak to so many people who affirm your previously determined perspective on the world.

could anyone else see this woman?


I have no problem with people poking holes in other's arguments, but which part of what he wrote is untrue?

I think you guys are living in a dream world if you think insurance premiums across the board aren't going to go up.


i don't know.

medical insurance premiums have been going up for how long? nothing new here.

but politifact says:

Our ruling
Quote:
Hannity said premiums are skyrocketing and the average man would pay twice as much, while the increase for the average woman would be 62 percent. That claim relies on a study that focused on the individual marketplaces for insurance set up under Obamacare, a subset of people who purchase insurance. Regardless of the accuracy of the analysis, it spoke to the experience of a small minority of Americans, and it did not factor in the subsidies that will cushion some people from increased premiums.

Hannity overreached in his remarks on radio.

That said, new rules for insurance plans will tend to push some rates up -- because the plans must provide better coverage. But by how much depends on a host of factors that several leading health policy experts say is too difficult to estimate.

We rate this claim Mostly False.


So basically they have no idea either. You are providing contrary opinions as facts.

Yes, insurance premiums have been going up and up for a long time... but why is that OK? Why is it OK to shrug and say "premiums were going up anyways"?

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PostPosted: Fri 10.25.2013, 13:27 
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Jcb890 wrote:
DaKlute wrote:
Jcb890 wrote:
DaKlute wrote:
Black Dog wrote:
I was speaking with a 61yr old woman today who told me her insurance company sent her a letter advising her policy was no longer available and that after the first of the year, she would have to re-enroll to maintain coverage. She was encouraged to go to the website, which was an obvious exercise in futility, to see if she qualified for a subsidy; ie some other peoples money. She was quoted a number from her existing provider that was nearly triple he previous costs but she will now have reproductive coverage in case she gets pregnant. Which is unlikely since she had a hysterectomy after complications from a pregnancy 30yrs ago. Oh, she is also covered for prostrate cancer.

FORWARD!!!!


its amazing how you speak to so many people who affirm your previously determined perspective on the world.

could anyone else see this woman?


I have no problem with people poking holes in other's arguments, but which part of what he wrote is untrue?

I think you guys are living in a dream world if you think insurance premiums across the board aren't going to go up.


i don't know.

medical insurance premiums have been going up for how long? nothing new here.

but politifact says:

Our ruling
Quote:
Hannity said premiums are skyrocketing and the average man would pay twice as much, while the increase for the average woman would be 62 percent. That claim relies on a study that focused on the individual marketplaces for insurance set up under Obamacare, a subset of people who purchase insurance. Regardless of the accuracy of the analysis, it spoke to the experience of a small minority of Americans, and it did not factor in the subsidies that will cushion some people from increased premiums.

Hannity overreached in his remarks on radio.

That said, new rules for insurance plans will tend to push some rates up -- because the plans must provide better coverage. But by how much depends on a host of factors that several leading health policy experts say is too difficult to estimate.

We rate this claim Mostly False.


So basically they have no idea either. You are providing contrary opinions as facts.

Yes, insurance premiums have been going up and up for a long time... but why is that OK? Why is it OK to shrug and say "premiums were going up anyways"?


or is it ok to point out a longitudinal trend, throw up your hands in a fit of pique and shreak 'rates are going up!"?

no, i think there is a consensus rates will be going up. the aca requires a minimum level of coverage that is in many cases higher than what people may have had before. these people will probably (almost certainly?) pay more. people who were previously uninsured will certainly pay more, but for some of these its a good thing; for others, it may not be.

there has been a pretty universal consensus that something had to be done to "bend the cost-curve" on medical costs. preliminary analysis suggest the aca will do that.

for me, its way to early to be yelling "rates are going up" or "my insurance went down" as evidence for or against this law.

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Something we can agree on DaKlute.


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PostPosted: Fri 10.25.2013, 13:37 
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DaKlute wrote:

or is it ok to point out a longitudinal trend, throw up your hands in a fit of pique and shreak 'rates are going up!"?

no, i think there is a consensus rates will be going up. the aca requires a minimum level of coverage that is in many cases higher than what people may have had before. these people will probably (almost certainly?) pay more. people who were previously uninsured will certainly pay more, but for some of these its a good thing; for others, it may not be.

there has been a pretty universal consensus that something had to be done to "bend the cost-curve" on medical costs. preliminary analysis suggest the aca will do that.

for me, its way to early to be yelling "rates are going up" or "my insurance went down" as evidence for or against this law.



hold on. Governmental laws are going to save the public money?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri 10.25.2013, 13:52 
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2nd thoughts

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Last edited by 5XChamps on Fri 10.25.2013, 14:03, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri 10.25.2013, 13:57 
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Obama care is a lead weight towards job creation. The next president will wipe his arse clean of this law with in a year of "its" election.

Unless we elect HRC. Then Obama Care is only a starting point.

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