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PostPosted: Mon 03.26.2012, 16:29 
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pwbowen wrote:
DaKlute wrote:
pwbowen wrote:
DaKlute wrote:
bluemist wrote:
I stand corrected. I honestly did not hear him say that in the audio.

I also stand by my original assertion that Geraldo makes a very valid point that is being completely overlooked. Some people ALWAYS come down on the same side of any discussion. Real intellectual diversity must include the ability to see both sides of every situation, as well as the flexibility to evolve one's outlook.

My apologies uni. :)



and what point is that?

you don't deserve to be killed for the way you dress/color of your skin/where you are walking.

maybe the facts will come out that there was something else to this case.


Where did anyone here say anything remotely close to that? The only point that I've seen is that people make initial peceptions as much on the attire as behavior and race, perhaps more.

And I don't think there's any doubt that the facts haven't been completely released at this point.


you bolded where someone here said that. why are you all worked up? i didn't come close to attributing it to anyone.

remind me again what legitimate point geraldo makes?


Uh yeah, I'm all worked up. :roll: If you want to discuss a point, that's fine.

And don't look at me for Geraldo, I think he's a massive tool.

The only thing I bolded was something in your post. You quoting someone else?


as i said, i wrote that. not attributing or quoting.

still waiting to hear what this point is/was.

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PostPosted: Mon 03.26.2012, 17:08 
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I believe that Geraldo's point has been fairly clearly stated here already. First perceptions are real,albeit rarely an accurate way to assess anyone. He urged parents of black/hispanic kids to reject "gangsta" fashion for their children. Seems clear cut that "dress for success" never goes away.

And put me down as another in the "Geraldo is a tool" camp.

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PostPosted: Mon 03.26.2012, 23:02 
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This story is a tragedy. I can't say I am familiar with all aspects of the case but from what I have read, I am not sure why we jump to racial corners. I think the shooter needs to see some additional scrutiny here and if the facts warrant, prosecuted. But I don't see a racial component to the shooting. I think the guy was just a scumbag nut job high on some self appointed power trip. The cops told him to back off and he didn't. The number of calls to police in the previous months was ridiculous. All of that should come into play.

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PostPosted: Tue 03.27.2012, 08:08 
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bluemist wrote:
I believe that Geraldo's point has been fairly clearly stated here already. First perceptions are real,albeit rarely an accurate way to assess anyone. He urged parents of black/hispanic kids to reject "gangsta" fashion for their children. Seems clear cut that "dress for success" never goes away.

And put me down as another in the "Geraldo is a tool" camp.


that makes no sense.

except for the tool part.

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PostPosted: Tue 03.27.2012, 08:18 
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Have they arrested this turd yet?

Zimmerman, not Geraldo.

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PostPosted: Tue 03.27.2012, 09:20 
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DaKlute wrote:
bluemist wrote:
I believe that Geraldo's point has been fairly clearly stated here already. First perceptions are real,albeit rarely an accurate way to assess anyone. He urged parents of black/hispanic kids to reject "gangsta" fashion for their children. Seems clear cut that "dress for success" never goes away.

And put me down as another in the "Geraldo is a tool" camp.


that makes no sense.

except for the tool part.


Because people don't make initial impressions based on attire? I didn't realize flip flops and a wife beater or a suit didn't matter in a job interview.

I say we do a test: let's dress Geraldo in a yamica and the proper Jewish attire drop him off in the middle of an angry mob in Iran or a bedsheet and pillow case and drop him in south central LA.

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PostPosted: Tue 03.27.2012, 09:26 
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pwbowen wrote:
DaKlute wrote:
bluemist wrote:
I believe that Geraldo's point has been fairly clearly stated here already. First perceptions are real,albeit rarely an accurate way to assess anyone. He urged parents of black/hispanic kids to reject "gangsta" fashion for their children. Seems clear cut that "dress for success" never goes away.

And put me down as another in the "Geraldo is a tool" camp.


that makes no sense.

except for the tool part.


Because people don't make initial impressions based on attire? I didn't realize flip flops and a wife beater or a suit didn't matter in a job interview.

I say we do a test: let's dress Geraldo in a yamica and the proper Jewish attire drop him off in the middle of an angry mob in Iran or a bedsheet and pillow case and drop him in south central LA.


That's the second time this sort of thing has been mentioned. I don't agree that a kid walking home from the store through his neighborhood wearing a hoodie equates to dressing like the KKK (a symbol for fear, hate, and intolerance) in a black neighborhood.


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PostPosted: Tue 03.27.2012, 09:34 
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Elmagister wrote:
pwbowen wrote:
DaKlute wrote:
bluemist wrote:
I believe that Geraldo's point has been fairly clearly stated here already. First perceptions are real,albeit rarely an accurate way to assess anyone. He urged parents of black/hispanic kids to reject "gangsta" fashion for their children. Seems clear cut that "dress for success" never goes away.

And put me down as another in the "Geraldo is a tool" camp.


that makes no sense.

except for the tool part.


Because people don't make initial impressions based on attire? I didn't realize flip flops and a wife beater or a suit didn't matter in a job interview.

I say we do a test: let's dress Geraldo in a yamica and the proper Jewish attire drop him off in the middle of an angry mob in Iran or a bedsheet and pillow case and drop him in south central LA.


That's the second time this sort of thing has been mentioned. I don't agree that a kid walking home from the store through his neighborhood wearing a hoodie equates to dressing like the KKK (a symbol for fear, hate, and intolerance) in a black neighborhood.


Where did I say that? I simply said that attire is important in initial impressions. Let's not oversimply it and go "anything not at ______ level is wrong". If my kid goes to a job interview in a t-shirt there's a different initial judgement than if he goes in a nice polo shirt. That's life, whether we like it or not.

As to this case, no I don't see a hoodie as some great menacing threat. I think Zimmerman is an azzhat and is responsible at the minimum probably to a manslaughter charge but I also don't think he broke his own nose to cover anything up.

Besides, I still want to run this test scenario with Geraldo. I think we'd all enjoy the results.

Is it progress that we're judged by the content of our wardrobe instead of the color of our skin?

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PostPosted: Tue 03.27.2012, 09:43 
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Fox News has apparently grown concerned that their apparel is sought after by gansta utes 8)

http://www.mediaite.com/online/hooded-s ... ine-store/

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PostPosted: Tue 03.27.2012, 09:50 
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Elmagister wrote:
pwbowen wrote:
DaKlute wrote:
bluemist wrote:
I believe that Geraldo's point has been fairly clearly stated here already. First perceptions are real,albeit rarely an accurate way to assess anyone. He urged parents of black/hispanic kids to reject "gangsta" fashion for their children. Seems clear cut that "dress for success" never goes away.

And put me down as another in the "Geraldo is a tool" camp.


that makes no sense.

except for the tool part.


Because people don't make initial impressions based on attire? I didn't realize flip flops and a wife beater or a suit didn't matter in a job interview.

I say we do a test: let's dress Geraldo in a yamica and the proper Jewish attire drop him off in the middle of an angry mob in Iran or a bedsheet and pillow case and drop him in south central LA.


That's the second time this sort of thing has been mentioned. I don't agree that a kid walking home from the store through his neighborhood wearing a hoodie equates to dressing like the KKK (a symbol for fear, hate, and intolerance) in a black neighborhood.


It doesn't. But for lots of people it equates to the white t-shirts and jeans that street criminals wear (at least in my city) to make witness ID harder for the police. Attire can lead to additional attention. Sometimes that higher attention is desired. In this case, the attention was from a (allegedly) dangerously unstable person who shot and killed him.

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PostPosted: Tue 03.27.2012, 09:56 
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beerbarian wrote:
Elmagister wrote:
pwbowen wrote:
DaKlute wrote:
bluemist wrote:
I believe that Geraldo's point has been fairly clearly stated here already. First perceptions are real,albeit rarely an accurate way to assess anyone. He urged parents of black/hispanic kids to reject "gangsta" fashion for their children. Seems clear cut that "dress for success" never goes away.

And put me down as another in the "Geraldo is a tool" camp.


that makes no sense.

except for the tool part.


Because people don't make initial impressions based on attire? I didn't realize flip flops and a wife beater or a suit didn't matter in a job interview.

I say we do a test: let's dress Geraldo in a yamica and the proper Jewish attire drop him off in the middle of an angry mob in Iran or a bedsheet and pillow case and drop him in south central LA.


That's the second time this sort of thing has been mentioned. I don't agree that a kid walking home from the store through his neighborhood wearing a hoodie equates to dressing like the KKK (a symbol for fear, hate, and intolerance) in a black neighborhood.


It doesn't. But for lots of people it equates to the white t-shirts and jeans that street criminals wear (at least in my city) to make witness ID harder for the police. Attire can lead to additional attention. Sometimes that higher attention is desired. In this case, the attention was from a (allegedly) dangerously unstable person who shot and killed him.


So the kid is to blame for wearing a hoodie. And a woman is to blame for being raped if she wears a skirt.


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PostPosted: Tue 03.27.2012, 10:54 
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Elmagister wrote:
So the kid is to blame for wearing a hoodie. And a woman is to blame for being raped if she wears a skirt.


No they're not. I didn't say they were. I'm saying the same thing as someone else said...perceptions are real. You need to be aware of the perceptions and understand how to mitigate them. Don't wear a "leaglize pot" t-shirt to your job interview. Clean your car before you pick up your date. If you're walking into a convenience store to buy something, lowering your hood and/or removing your sunglasses for 10 min. will lower the cashier's anxiety. You can still run into some crazy a-hole who will just find another reason to focus his attention on you...but if nobody ever acknowledges that the perceptions can lead to real consequences then the risk for a bad outcome increases.

The kid isn't to blame for wearing a hoodie. But wearing a hoodie might have drawn the attention of a dangerous individual. Maybe he would have drawn that attention just because he was black. He's just as dead either way...but if he had been aware of the perceptions, and had mitigated the risk he might be alive today.

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PostPosted: Tue 03.27.2012, 11:00 
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beerbarian wrote:
Elmagister wrote:
So the kid is to blame for wearing a hoodie. And a woman is to blame for being raped if she wears a skirt.


No they're not. I didn't say they were. I'm saying the same thing as someone else said...perceptions are real. You need to be aware of the perceptions and understand how to mitigate them. Don't wear a "leaglize pot" t-shirt to your job interview. Clean your car before you pick up your date. If you're walking into a convenience store to buy something, lowering your hood and/or removing your sunglasses for 10 min. will lower the cashier's anxiety. You can still run into some crazy a-hole who will just find another reason to focus his attention on you...but if nobody ever acknowledges that the perceptions can lead to real consequences then the risk for a bad outcome increases.

The kid isn't to blame for wearing a hoodie. But wearing a hoodie might have drawn the attention of a dangerous individual. Maybe he would have drawn that attention just because he was black. He's just as dead either way...but if he had been aware of the perceptions, and had mitigated the risk he might be alive today.


Right, and a woman should be aware that a skirt might attract the attention of a rapist.


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PostPosted: Tue 03.27.2012, 11:08 
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Y'all shoulda known better'n wear that hooded sweathshirt, BOY.


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PostPosted: Tue 03.27.2012, 11:58 
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Elmagister wrote:
beerbarian wrote:
Elmagister wrote:
So the kid is to blame for wearing a hoodie. And a woman is to blame for being raped if she wears a skirt.


No they're not. I didn't say they were. I'm saying the same thing as someone else said...perceptions are real. You need to be aware of the perceptions and understand how to mitigate them. Don't wear a "leaglize pot" t-shirt to your job interview. Clean your car before you pick up your date. If you're walking into a convenience store to buy something, lowering your hood and/or removing your sunglasses for 10 min. will lower the cashier's anxiety. You can still run into some crazy a-hole who will just find another reason to focus his attention on you...but if nobody ever acknowledges that the perceptions can lead to real consequences then the risk for a bad outcome increases.

The kid isn't to blame for wearing a hoodie. But wearing a hoodie might have drawn the attention of a dangerous individual. Maybe he would have drawn that attention just because he was black. He's just as dead either way...but if he had been aware of the perceptions, and had mitigated the risk he might be alive today.


Right, and a woman should be aware that a skirt might attract the attention of a rapist.


Do you think there is a reason why police detctives don't wear the uniform that patrol officers wear? Is there a reason why doctors wear labcoats that are white? Any special reason why the people behind the counter at McDonald's wear the same shirt and same color pants?

You seem bent on denying something that has been proven time and again to be a truism of human perception, and you seem to be angry that someone dared to point it out (although to be fair, he did so in a douchey and sensationalist way that basically ruins the message). There's no reason not to be upset that the perceptions are wrong/unfair/whatever. But denying they exist does nothing to combat them.

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Last edited by beerbarian on Tue 03.27.2012, 12:54, edited 1 time in total.

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