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PostPosted: Tue 03.27.2012, 20:12 
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tjusmc wrote:
Elmagister wrote:

So I can go into Little Rock, pick out the thugiest guy I can find, approach question him, and when he pounds me in the face, legalized murder.



If that's the way you want to look at it, yes.

Starting a verbal confrontation doesn't mean that the person loses the right to defend themselves if the other person changes it to a physical confrontation if the violence level justifies it. Meaning I can't shoot you because you punched me in the jaw. I can shoot you if you start banging my head on the sidewalk or continue to beat me to the point a reasonable person would fear for their life or fear serious bodily harm.

Isn't this common sense?


Well, I thought it was common sense that I was free to walk down the street without being followed, chased, detained, and shot by someone who has no authority to do so. I agree with you that certain facts are up in the air, but it's not in dispute that the kid ran and the guy pursued.

You can bet that if someone is chasing me, there's a good chance I'm busting their nose.


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PostPosted: Tue 03.27.2012, 20:26 
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Elmagister wrote:
tjusmc wrote:
Elmagister wrote:

So I can go into Little Rock, pick out the thugiest guy I can find, approach question him, and when he pounds me in the face, legalized murder.



If that's the way you want to look at it, yes.

Starting a verbal confrontation doesn't mean that the person loses the right to defend themselves if the other person changes it to a physical confrontation if the violence level justifies it. Meaning I can't shoot you because you punched me in the jaw. I can shoot you if you start banging my head on the sidewalk or continue to beat me to the point a reasonable person would fear for their life or fear serious bodily harm.

Isn't this common sense?


Well, I thought it was common sense that I was free to walk down the street without being followed, chased, detained, and shot by someone who has no authority to do so. I agree with you that certain facts are up in the air, but it's not in dispute that the kid ran and the guy pursued.

You can bet that if someone is chasing me, there's a good chance I'm busting their nose.


I have heard that fact disputed. The eyewitness report I saw said the the guy did not persue and the kid attacked the guy for following him in the first place. Apparently that was an eyewitness report from a friend of the guy so who knows if it is true.

Regardless, my point is simply this. You cannot state that someone can't claim self defense just because they initiated to contact. There are douchebags in the world and no matter how much you want to, you just can't beat the chit out of them for being douchebags. Have you never been questioned about what you were doing in an area? I'm mexican and in high school I nailed plenty of white girls. Some of those white girls lived in nice neighborhoods. I can't count the number of times I was asked what I was doing in that neighborhood, who was I there to see, told I don't belong there. I would tell them to go eff themselves, I wouldn't beat the hell out of them. Had I done so, I might have gotten shot.

Like I said, I don't know what happened. Maybe the guy did straight up murder the kid, wouldn't surprise me. All I am saying is that that it is possible to initiate a verbal conflict and have the other person escalate it to the point where self defense with deadly force is justified. Not saying that is the case here, because we don't know what happened. I'm just saying its possible.

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PostPosted: Tue 03.27.2012, 20:30 
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tjusmc wrote:
Elmagister wrote:
I have heard that fact disputed. The eyewitness report I saw said the the guy did not persue and the kid attacked the guy for following him in the first place. Apparently that was an eyewitness report from a friend of the guy so who knows if it is true.


You can listen to the 911 call and hear it.

You can also hear the boy repeatedly screaming for help.


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PostPosted: Tue 03.27.2012, 20:43 
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Stankweasels 3000 wrote:
pwbowen wrote:
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Anyone who's saying that a kid wearing a hoodie to keep warm on a brisk February evening is begging to get murdered is a moron. What the hell is wrong with you dopes?


My reading comprehension must really suck, who at all said that?


anyone saying that a hoodie has anything to do with it.


Why's it Belichick's fault?

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PostPosted: Tue 03.27.2012, 20:44 
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Elmagister wrote:
tjusmc wrote:
Elmagister wrote:
I have heard that fact disputed. The eyewitness report I saw said the the guy did not persue and the kid attacked the guy for following him in the first place. Apparently that was an eyewitness report from a friend of the guy so who knows if it is true.


You can listen to the 911 call and hear it.

You can also hear the boy repeatedly screaming for help.


I just listened to the 911 call and he definately didn't run after him during the call. The 911 operater asks if he is following him and tells him to stop doing that. The guys says ok, the says the kid ran, and then talks to the 911 operator for several more minutes, definately not running at that time.

I listened to the witness 911 call and you can hear someone yelling help. I don't know who it is yelling. The popular media report is its the kid. The guy and one witness say its the guy yelling help.

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PostPosted: Tue 03.27.2012, 20:47 
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tjusmc wrote:
Elmagister wrote:
tjusmc wrote:
Elmagister wrote:
I have heard that fact disputed. The eyewitness report I saw said the the guy did not persue and the kid attacked the guy for following him in the first place. Apparently that was an eyewitness report from a friend of the guy so who knows if it is true.


You can listen to the 911 call and hear it.

You can also hear the boy repeatedly screaming for help.


I just listened to the 911 call and he definately didn't run after him during the call. The 911 operater asks if he is following him and tells him to stop doing that. The guys says ok, the says the kid ran, and then talks to the 911 operator for several more minutes, definately not running at that time.

I listened to the witness 911 call and you can hear someone yelling help. I don't know who it is yelling. The popular media report is its the kid. The guy and one witness say its the guy yelling help.


You can hear that it's not Zimmerman's voice. That coupled with the fact that the kid was unarmed, had been followed...whatev.


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PostPosted: Tue 03.27.2012, 20:50 
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Is it logical to believe a 17 year old boy (even one with gold teeth, a foul language twitter feed and suspended for marijuana residue) would brutally and viciously attack a man (that from the pictures looks pretty hefty) without reason or provocation while walking to his dads house? :-k


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PostPosted: Tue 03.27.2012, 20:54 
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Elmagister wrote:
tjusmc wrote:
Elmagister wrote:
tjusmc wrote:
Elmagister wrote:
I have heard that fact disputed. The eyewitness report I saw said the the guy did not persue and the kid attacked the guy for following him in the first place. Apparently that was an eyewitness report from a friend of the guy so who knows if it is true.


You can listen to the 911 call and hear it.

You can also hear the boy repeatedly screaming for help.


I just listened to the 911 call and he definately didn't run after him during the call. The 911 operater asks if he is following him and tells him to stop doing that. The guys says ok, the says the kid ran, and then talks to the 911 operator for several more minutes, definately not running at that time.

I listened to the witness 911 call and you can hear someone yelling help. I don't know who it is yelling. The popular media report is its the kid. The guy and one witness say its the guy yelling help.


You can hear that it's not Zimmerman's voice. That coupled with the fact that the kid was unarmed, had been followed...whatev.


Interesting, you know what Zimmerman sounds like? And what he sounds like if you're kicking his azz?

You might want to come forward with that important testimony as expert audial witness.

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PostPosted: Tue 03.27.2012, 20:57 
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pwbowen wrote:
Interesting, you know what Zimmerman sounds like? And what he sounds like if you're kicking his azz?

You might want to come forward with that important testimony as expert audial witness.


I do, actually. I listened to him speak. I also have read that the woman who called 911 told police that it was a very young voice that was whining in her backyard. She also told them it stopped right after the kid was shot. But thanks for bringing a little smarm to the convo. :roll:


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PostPosted: Tue 03.27.2012, 21:02 
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Elmagister wrote:

You can hear that it's not Zimmerman's voice. That coupled with the fact that the kid was unarmed, had been followed...whatev.



I guess you are better at voice recognition than I am. I hear a voice screaming in the background, the only reason I even know he is yelling help is because the lady on the phone says he is yelling help. I can't make out if it is Zimmerman's voice or not.

Like I have said before, I am not saying Zimmerman was justified. I'm just saying that its possible. It just seems that everyone made a snap judgement on this case before all the facts came out. From the beginning it was presented as the kid had skittles and tea it was obviously murder. As if skittles and tea prevent anyone from beating the chit out of someone.

The only thing I believe that I know for certain is that this Zimmerman guy is a busy body douchenozzle.

What I imagine happened is busy body douchebag decided he wasn't going to let this kid get away before the cops got there and his attention/stopped him. A fight broke out, and Rambo shot the kid because he was getting his rump kicked. That seems the most likely scenario based on my personal belief that the truth of two sides of a story is somewhere in between. I highly doubt Zimmerman chased him down and shot him. I highly doubt the kid ran away, circled around and attacked him from behind like some kind of jungle cat.

The problem is how do you prove any of that? I don't know, that's the problem that comes up when some kills someone and claims self defense when no one is around to see it or when there are conflicting stories. I'm not comfortable with everyone calling for murder charges just based on what you have seen on the news though.

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PostPosted: Tue 03.27.2012, 21:04 
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endzoneview wrote:
Is it logical to believe a 17 year old boy (even one with gold teeth, a foul language twitter feed and suspended for marijuana residue) would brutally and viciously attack a man (that from the pictures looks pretty hefty) without reason or provocation while walking to his dads house? :-k



I wouldn't say it would be without provocation. Zimmerman was at the very least being a douchebag. I have seen people beat the hell out of people for disrespect like that.

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PostPosted: Tue 03.27.2012, 21:09 
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Elmagister wrote:
pwbowen wrote:
Interesting, you know what Zimmerman sounds like? And what he sounds like if you're kicking his azz?

You might want to come forward with that important testimony as expert audial witness.


I do, actually. I listened to him speak. I also have read that the woman who called 911 told police that it was a very young voice that was whining in her backyard. She also told them it stopped right after the kid was shot. But thanks for bringing a little smarm to the convo. :roll:


I was thinking he hadn't spoken but he is on the 911 tape. Still, I don't think it's without a doubt Zimmerman. Probably? Yeah. But there's way too many assumptions already to this point about what happened. I'd imagine they can do some actual comparisons and determine it for sure. You're listening to what, a 2nd generation copy at best? If my doubting your credibility to accurately define who's who is smarm, then so be it.

The only thing that's definite is that Zimmerman set the ball in motion playing pretend-a-cop.

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PostPosted: Tue 03.27.2012, 21:10 
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Elmagister wrote:
pwbowen wrote:
Interesting, you know what Zimmerman sounds like? And what he sounds like if you're kicking his azz?

You might want to come forward with that important testimony as expert audial witness.


I do, actually. I listened to him speak. I also have read that the woman who called 911 told police that it was a very young voice that was whining in her backyard. She also told them it stopped right after the kid was shot. But thanks for bringing a little smarm to the convo. :roll:



If the kid was screaming because Zimmerman attacked him I have to ask, Why would you physically attack someone, then pull out a gun and shoot him? If you are going to pull out a gun and shoot someone, why would you close to a distance where the gun could be taken away and used on you? Don't you want at least longer than arms reach distance between you?

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PostPosted: Tue 03.27.2012, 21:33 
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If you listen carefully after the screaming stops, you can hear Rev Al and uncle Jesse yelling cha-ching

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PostPosted: Tue 03.27.2012, 21:39 
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I think about some of the things I did as a teen, and it blows my mind that there are folk here that think murdering me would have been justified.


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