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PostPosted: Sat 07.30.2011, 23:01 
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Crazysight wrote:
Agree with you that most of those players are not undervalued pw, but not sure how you can say Deangelo is undervalued and ingram is not when INgrams adp is lower. I foresee ingram scoring more fantasy points than deangelo as being a better runner, having a larger share of carries and being in a better offense.


Well, rookie Backs do have the greatest percentage of success. He'll be splitting carries with Pierre Thomas and Chris Ivory. Can he explode if given the rock 60% of the time and the majority of overall touches as well? Yes indded, thus making him greatly undervalued right now, like many rookies that fly under the radar. You have to take your chances but those same chances last year got one burned by Ryan Mathews..it happens.

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PostPosted: Sat 07.30.2011, 23:31 
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Quote:
KB488 said:

Can we change the title of this thread to

"Don't be a square and pass on these 2011 undervalued players"


:lol: :lol:

"Sharp's are Silly"

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PostPosted: Sun 07.31.2011, 06:27 
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Fighting Amish wrote:
Quote:
KB488 said:

Can we change the title of this thread to

"Don't be a square and pass on these 2011 undervalued players"


:lol: :lol:

"Sharp's are Silly"

I've been seeing the donkeys pass up all of these players.


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PostPosted: Sun 07.31.2011, 06:32 
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Well, it begins in New Orleans.....Ivory hobbling on broken foot i hear.......better scoop up CJ Gable to back up the other 2or 3 guys ahead of him...... :F


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PostPosted: Sun 07.31.2011, 06:34 
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Sleepers: Jeremiah Johnson (DEN, RB) & Adrian Arrington (NO, WR)

Undervalued: Marshawn Lynch (SEA, RB), Sidney Rice (SEA, WR), Austin Collie (IND, WR), Mario Manningham (NYG, WR), Anquan Boldin (BAL, WR)


Last edited by jamcutpost on Sun 07.31.2011, 06:40, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun 07.31.2011, 06:38 
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jamcutpost wrote:
Jeremiah Johnson (DEN, RB) & Adrian Arrington (NO, WR)



i loved Jeremiah coming out of college...hasnt had his chance yet...Houston just had too many ahead of him last year when he was there....guy has ability if he gets the opp.
Arrington .......could be a beast if he gets a chance with Brees....gotta get Fric and Frac out of the way first so he can get on the field with Colston and Moore.......Henderson/Meachem need to go......

Good calls on both in a deep dyno :thumbright:


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PostPosted: Sun 07.31.2011, 06:46 
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pwbowen wrote:
Do you concur that the Saints offense should fundamentally be the same as it was last year? It's pretty much a well-oiled machine IMO and shouldn't be changed dramatically. Guess who was the 30th ranked team in the league in Rushing Attempts: NO with 380 attempts.

Carolina's gonna be a run heavy offense with a rookie QB. Williams will be getting the majority of the carries there, too.

The difference is that Ingram will probably get 200 carries, Williams will probably get 280. Who's going to get more passes thrown at him? Probably Williams with Sproles moving to the Saints.

Everything I've read is that NO will be moving to the balanced offense they had in 2009, when they were 6th in the league in rush y/g with 131.6 on 468 attempts. See more relevant stats here.

While I think DWill is more talented, splitting carries with another very talented back is a concern. More importantly, playing in an offense guided most or even all of the season by a rookie QB is more ominous. Carolina might run half of it's offensive possessions, but if the QB can't keep the team out of 3-and-outs (like 2010), opposing offenses will grind away the defense (5th worst in Defensive ToP in 2010). Questions throughout the WR corps, defensive coverage issues, lack of pressure from up front, elite o-line coming off a down year, rookie HC with no TC to get the team together- a whole bunch of reasons why Williams' superior talent won't translate into superior statistics in 2011, in my opinion.


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PostPosted: Sun 07.31.2011, 07:15 
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Captain Obvious wrote:
pwbowen wrote:
Do you concur that the Saints offense should fundamentally be the same as it was last year? It's pretty much a well-oiled machine IMO and shouldn't be changed dramatically. Guess who was the 30th ranked team in the league in Rushing Attempts: NO with 380 attempts.

Carolina's gonna be a run heavy offense with a rookie QB. Williams will be getting the majority of the carries there, too.

The difference is that Ingram will probably get 200 carries, Williams will probably get 280. Who's going to get more passes thrown at him? Probably Williams with Sproles moving to the Saints.

Everything I've read is that NO will be moving to the balanced offense they had in 2009, when they were 6th in the league in rush y/g with 131.6 on 468 attempts. See more relevant stats here.

While I think DWill is more talented, splitting carries with another very talented back is a concern. More importantly, playing in an offense guided most or even all of the season by a rookie QB is more ominous. Carolina might run half of it's offensive possessions, but if the QB can't keep the team out of 3-and-outs (like 2010), opposing offenses will grind away the defense (5th worst in Defensive ToP in 2010). Questions throughout the WR corps, defensive coverage issues, lack of pressure from up front, elite o-line coming off a down year, rookie HC with no TC to get the team together- a whole bunch of reasons why Williams' superior talent won't translate into superior statistics in 2011, in my opinion.


In CAR it was a relatively well-definied split... In NO its always going to be a "hot-hand"/Matchup/ Whatever RB fits best situation imho.

I agree with you that its always possible that NO rushing attempts may go up, but as PW mentioned the same could also be posited for CAR given their circumstances couldnt it?


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PostPosted: Sun 07.31.2011, 07:32 
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jamcutpost wrote:
In CAR it was a relatively well-definied split... In NO its always going to be a "hot-hand"/Matchup/ Whatever RB fits best situation imho.

Well, I don't see the NO RB situation playing out that way. Given how Payton has soured on Thomas over the years and both Ivory's and Thomas's injury history, I see Ingram getting a significant majority of the carries in a strong offense that decidedly more balanced and will easily be in the top-half of the league in terms of y/g. Thomas was resigned for a "backup's deal", often taken as a sign of what the coaching staff thinks of him. Ivory is struggling back from a Lisfranc injury 6 months after surgery and won't be able to practice for at least a few more weeks. The possible competition is limited by injury and/or lacks the coach's confidence. Not only is the situation primo, but Ingram himself is a very talented back who provides what NO needs.
NO seems it will balance it's offense- "the Saints appear set on getting back to a more conventional running game that was part of their run to a Super Bowl title in 2009. The team selected running back Mark Ingram in the first round of this year’s draft. Ingram is a more prototypical, bell-cow running back."
jamcutpost wrote:
I agree with you that its always possible that NO rushing attempts may go up, but as PW mentioned the same could also be posited for CAR given their circumstances couldnt it?

For the reasons PW gave, I can see why CAR would want to increase their rushing attempts, but given the countervailing issues I listed, I'm far from confident they'll be able to follow up on that desire. NO's offense, defense and coaching staff is better positioned to increase rush attempts then Carolina.


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PostPosted: Sun 07.31.2011, 08:09 
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Fighting Amish wrote:
Quote:
KB488 said:

Can we change the title of this thread to

"Don't be a square and pass on these 2011 undervalued players"


:lol: :lol:

"Sharp's are Silly"


Dude this was put up a week ago not sure why you put it back up? A square. There is some good stuff in here. Last week before signings why you put it back up now? Of course they are not undervalued now they signed to bad teams but last week they were. If deangelo willimas went to anywhere but carolina he would be undervalued. That was worst spot for him. Everyone is a joker not a biggie take what you can from it and move on. Last season I got foster and williams. People were laughing at me then also. I will have last laugh.

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PostPosted: Sun 07.31.2011, 08:35 
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I put it up there because he said a funny joke bro..

Yah see Clarabell, there is this running joke around here and it has nothing to do with you. It's regarding the terms, "Sharp's (short for cunning Linguists, smooth talkers and real slick smart guys who KNOW this game and DOM-IN 8 so regular they can set their bowel movements to it.) Then, you have your "Squares"...the no nothings, the do badders, and users of last years stained cheat sheets and dirty china. They're the bright guys who are always behind a step, but most notably seen and detected by Sharps coincidentally. Odd that is. Otherwise, they'd just go unnoticed.

Sharp's and Squares..it's a defining standard. Which are you? That's the question we must all ask ourselves in here. Each and every one of us. But that kind of respect is earned..to be a Sharp that is. It's not so easily given on the proving grounds and the backs of poor unsuspecting Yahoodlums innocently playing for fun in their online public leagues. No, no a thousand times no sir..that won't cut the cheese around here.

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PostPosted: Sun 07.31.2011, 08:41 
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Fighting Amish wrote:
Yah see Clarabell, there is this running joke around here regarding the terms, "Sharp's (short for cunning Linguists, smooth talkers and real slick smart guys who KNOW this game and DOM-IN 8 so regular they can set their bowel movements to it. Then, you have you "Squares"...the no nothings, the do badders, and users of last years, stained cheat sheets and dirty china.

Sharp's and Squares..it's a defining standard. Which are you? That's the question we must all ask ourselves in here. But that kind of respect is earned..to be a Sharp that is. It's not so easily given on the proving grounds and the backs of poor unsuspecting Yahoodlums innocently playing for fun in their online public leagues. No, no a thousand times no sir..that won't cut the cheese around here.


You guys are so gay. Oh my god. I mean hard core. That will not cut it around here LOL :F . WOW. I am not here to impress you man. LOL. WOW. I am not here to please you honestly or anyone else. :-k . Your a joke man IMO. That will not cut it around here LOL. WOW. Getting on grammar. WOW. I mean really man go attack someone else. We are all sold out here on trying to make everyone feel good. I do what I want I do not have to answer or listen to you. Stop posting on my topics if you feel this way. I mean do not read them if these things bother you so much. =;

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PostPosted: Sun 07.31.2011, 08:42 
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Captain Obvious wrote:
jamcutpost wrote:
In CAR it was a relatively well-definied split... In NO its always going to be a "hot-hand"/Matchup/ Whatever RB fits best situation imho.

Well, I don't see the NO RB situation playing out that way. Given how Payton has soured on Thomas over the years and both Ivory's and Thomas's injury history, I see Ingram getting a significant majority of the carries in a strong offense that decidedly more balanced and will easily be in the top-half of the league in terms of y/g. Thomas was resigned for a "backup's deal", often taken as a sign of what the coaching staff thinks of him. Ivory is struggling back from a Lisfranc injury 6 months after surgery and won't be able to practice for at least a few more weeks. The possible competition is limited by injury and/or lacks the coach's confidence. Not only is the situation primo, but Ingram himself is a very talented back who provides what NO needs.
NO seems it will balance it's offense- "the Saints appear set on getting back to a more conventional running game that was part of their run to a Super Bowl title in 2009. The team selected running back Mark Ingram in the first round of this year’s draft. Ingram is a more prototypical, bell-cow running back."
jamcutpost wrote:
I agree with you that its always possible that NO rushing attempts may go up, but as PW mentioned the same could also be posited for CAR given their circumstances couldnt it?

For the reasons PW gave, I can see why CAR would want to increase their rushing attempts, but given the countervailing issues I listed, I'm far from confident they'll be able to follow up on that desire. NO's offense, defense and coaching staff is better positioned to increase rush attempts then Carolina.


I agree with what your saying but i think youre missing the crux of what im getting at which is that NO will not run more than CAR and that CAR have more proven history with how they use their backs vs NOS.

Firstly the URL link is predominatly a link about "Bush being allowed to talk to other teams"... I had to really look to find anything regarding what you were saying. Its the 8th para of 9 and was almost a throwaway comment with no reference or source given:

Jason Cole wrote:
However, the Saints appear set on getting back to a more conventional running game that was part of their run to a Super Bowl title in 2009. The team selected running back Mark Ingram(notes) in the first round of this year’s draft. Ingram is a more prototypical, bell-cow running back.

So few questions wasnt sure youd considered or not:

1) When did they make the conscious decision to move AWAY from the 2009 model? I was udner the impression the backs just got injured so they were forced to throw more? Was that not the case then?
2) They had a multi-headed RBBC in 2009 whichever way you look at it (Bell, Thomas, Bush), so if they are going back to the 2009 model is that what we'll be seeing?
3) I agree about Ivory - he is a couple fo weeks away from playing, but when exactly does the season start and when exactly has Peyton "lost confidence" in him? I havent read that. If you mean Peyton grabbed a good player when he fell to him, then does that mean GB have lost faith with Starks too as McCarthy took Green?
4) Im assuming you looked at the rushing atts vs the personnel & circumstances in 2009 & 2010 w/players over 35 carries?

392 rushing atts in 2007 for NO (Brees), (Bush, Stecker, PT)
398 rushing atts in 2008 for NO (Brees), (Deuce, PT, Bush)
468 rushing atts in 2009 for NO (Brees), (Bell, PT, Bush, Hamilton)
380 rushing atts in 2010 for NO (Brees), (PT, Ivory, Bush, Julia, Betts)

451 rushing atts in 2008 for CAR (Testaverde, Carr, Moore), (Foster, Jstew)
504 rushing atts in 2008 for CAR (Delhomme), (Dwill, Jstew)
525 rushing atts in 2009 for CAR (Delhomme), (Dwill, Jstew)
428 rushing atts in 2010 for CAR (Clausen), (DWill, Jstew)

One has a franchise legend at the helm w/proven receiving talent, the other has had 2 QBs of tremendously bad ability - and now a QB that is an athletic dual threat QB - as well as a lack of receiving options. I wont derail the thread into which team will run more, but i cannot see anyway that NO will beat CAR in that category. perhaps others, but not that.

I also see Sproles as every bit a drain on Ingram's value as Bush was for PT, Deuce & Bell. Reggie Bush might be an FF divisive factor but the guy poached plenty of recs and TDs. Sproles can be more effective.

Is it possible youre undervaluing how Peyton has always treated his RBs and how intrinsic and integral the rungame is to CAR this year more than any other (and its been pretty important then, too!)? Just a thought though and good to hear a different opinon


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PostPosted: Sun 07.31.2011, 08:52 
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@ silly..It's just all about the cheese really is all im saying. It always comes down to that..geezz.. :roll:

I tried. My work is done. But seriously now..you must join the Tank Shark Leagues toot sweet to test your formidable leather sir and start your way up the ladder by winning each year.

Here's the link. The Mod who runs it is named Pat_Smith, a jovial chap, you'll like him.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=262507

Good Luck :Drink) Join a Sharl league and be a good sport and let us all know which one you got in to.

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PostPosted: Sun 07.31.2011, 09:06 
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Fighting Amish wrote:
@ silly..It's just all about the cheese really is all im saying. It always comes down to that..geezz.. :roll:

I tried. My work is done. But seriously now..you must join the Tank Shark Leagues toot sweet to test your formidable leather sir and start your way up the ladder by winning each year.

Here's the link. The Mod who runs it is named Pat_Smith, a jovial chap, you'll like him.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=262507

Good Luck :Drink) Join a Sharl league and be a good sport and let us all know which one you got in to.


Send me a pm to the league and we will see. I will join.

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