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PostPosted: Fri 02.10.2012, 19:12 
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sebringc4 wrote:
Let me caveat that I'm a Giants fan. I try to use the facts, as best as possible, to assess someone's "elite" status, similar to selecting fantasy football players. And I'm not saying I understand all nuances, such as QB ratings. Ialso don't care for the QB rating because for all QBs, I don't believe interceptions should be attributed to QBs if the ball bounces off their receivers hands and other similar situations. Just my opinion.

As some mentioned before, someone can have an "elite" season or an "elite" career. With all the comparisons regarding current QBs and their histories, we seem to be talking about "elite" careers.

Ben 2004 class 26,579 yds 165 TDs 100 int 92.1 rating 2 Superbowl Wins 2 Sb appearances
Rivers 2004 class 24,285 yds 163 TDs 78 int 95.5 rating 0 Superbowl Wins 0 SB appearances
Eli 2004 class 27,579 yds 185 TDs 129 int 82.2 rating 2 Superbowl Wins 2 SB appearances
Compared to Ben, Eli averaged more in everything, including interceptions unfortunately. Over 8 years, he averaged 125yds per season, 2.5 TDs per season and 3.5 int per season. A wash IMO.

Brady 2001 class 39,979 yds 300 TDs 115 int 96.4 rating 3 Superbowl Wins 5 SB appearances
Brees 2001 class 40,742 yds 281 TDs 146 int 94.0 rating 1 Superbowl Win 1 SB appearance
If you average Eli's last three years, to equalize the number of seasons to Brady and Brees, with the understanding is that he progressed from his rookie season, he may have:
Eli 40,435 yds 272 TDs 184 int

Peyton 1998 class 54,828 yds 399 TDs 198 int 94.9 rating 1 Superbowl Win 2 SB appearances
If you add the three year average again to make it six years, to equalize Peyton, Eli may have:
Eli 53,491 yds 359 TDs 239 int 4 Superbowl Wins 4 SB appearances (just kidding here!)

Comparable in yards. Comparable in TDs. What he loses in interceptions, I believe he makes up for it in Superbowls.

At this rate, if Tom, Drew and Peyton are elite and a HOF candidates, then IMO, so is Eli.

And if anyone believes Ben is included in this conversation, then so should Eli.

The real outcome will be decided in approximately 6 years!



Your trying way to hard here.


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PostPosted: Fri 02.10.2012, 21:28 
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rugger48 wrote:
sebringc4 wrote:
Let me caveat that I'm a Giants fan. I try to use the facts, as best as possible, to assess someone's "elite" status, similar to selecting fantasy football players. And I'm not saying I understand all nuances, such as QB ratings. Ialso don't care for the QB rating because for all QBs, I don't believe interceptions should be attributed to QBs if the ball bounces off their receivers hands and other similar situations. Just my opinion.

As some mentioned before, someone can have an "elite" season or an "elite" career. With all the comparisons regarding current QBs and their histories, we seem to be talking about "elite" careers.

Ben 2004 class 26,579 yds 165 TDs 100 int 92.1 rating 2 Superbowl Wins 2 Sb appearances
Rivers 2004 class 24,285 yds 163 TDs 78 int 95.5 rating 0 Superbowl Wins 0 SB appearances
Eli 2004 class 27,579 yds 185 TDs 129 int 82.2 rating 2 Superbowl Wins 2 SB appearances
Compared to Ben, Eli averaged more in everything, including interceptions unfortunately. Over 8 years, he averaged 125yds per season, 2.5 TDs per season and 3.5 int per season. A wash IMO.

Brady 2001 class 39,979 yds 300 TDs 115 int 96.4 rating 3 Superbowl Wins 5 SB appearances
Brees 2001 class 40,742 yds 281 TDs 146 int 94.0 rating 1 Superbowl Win 1 SB appearance
If you average Eli's last three years, to equalize the number of seasons to Brady and Brees, with the understanding is that he progressed from his rookie season, he may have:
Eli 40,435 yds 272 TDs 184 int

Peyton 1998 class 54,828 yds 399 TDs 198 int 94.9 rating 1 Superbowl Win 2 SB appearances
If you add the three year average again to make it six years, to equalize Peyton, Eli may have:
Eli 53,491 yds 359 TDs 239 int 4 Superbowl Wins 4 SB appearances (just kidding here!)

Comparable in yards. Comparable in TDs. What he loses in interceptions, I believe he makes up for it in Superbowls.

At this rate, if Tom, Drew and Peyton are elite and a HOF candidates, then IMO, so is Eli.

And if anyone believes Ben is included in this conversation, then so should Eli.

The real outcome will be decided in approximately 6 years!



Your trying way to hard here.


I am...you should see the flour on my face for all the baking of the numbers I did!!! :lol:

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QB: Vick*
RB: McCoy*; Charles*; Bradshaw; D. Martin*
WR: Cruz*; Julio*; Blackmon ; Cobb
TE: Pettigrew*
K: Janik*
DEF: Sea; Cin*
IDP: Dqwell*


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PostPosted: Fri 02.10.2012, 21:28 
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rugger48 wrote:
sebringc4 wrote:
Let me caveat that I'm a Giants fan. I try to use the facts, as best as possible, to assess someone's "elite" status, similar to selecting fantasy football players. And I'm not saying I understand all nuances, such as QB ratings. Ialso don't care for the QB rating because for all QBs, I don't believe interceptions should be attributed to QBs if the ball bounces off their receivers hands and other similar situations. Just my opinion.

As some mentioned before, someone can have an "elite" season or an "elite" career. With all the comparisons regarding current QBs and their histories, we seem to be talking about "elite" careers.

Ben 2004 class 26,579 yds 165 TDs 100 int 92.1 rating 2 Superbowl Wins 2 Sb appearances
Rivers 2004 class 24,285 yds 163 TDs 78 int 95.5 rating 0 Superbowl Wins 0 SB appearances
Eli 2004 class 27,579 yds 185 TDs 129 int 82.2 rating 2 Superbowl Wins 2 SB appearances
Compared to Ben, Eli averaged more in everything, including interceptions unfortunately. Over 8 years, he averaged 125yds per season, 2.5 TDs per season and 3.5 int per season. A wash IMO.

Brady 2001 class 39,979 yds 300 TDs 115 int 96.4 rating 3 Superbowl Wins 5 SB appearances
Brees 2001 class 40,742 yds 281 TDs 146 int 94.0 rating 1 Superbowl Win 1 SB appearance
If you average Eli's last three years, to equalize the number of seasons to Brady and Brees, with the understanding is that he progressed from his rookie season, he may have:
Eli 40,435 yds 272 TDs 184 int

Peyton 1998 class 54,828 yds 399 TDs 198 int 94.9 rating 1 Superbowl Win 2 SB appearances
If you add the three year average again to make it six years, to equalize Peyton, Eli may have:
Eli 53,491 yds 359 TDs 239 int 4 Superbowl Wins 4 SB appearances (just kidding here!)

Comparable in yards. Comparable in TDs. What he loses in interceptions, I believe he makes up for it in Superbowls.

At this rate, if Tom, Drew and Peyton are elite and a HOF candidates, then IMO, so is Eli.

And if anyone believes Ben is included in this conversation, then so should Eli.

The real outcome will be decided in approximately 6 years!



Your trying way to hard here.


I am...you should see the flour on my face for all the baking of the numbers I did!!! :lol:

_________________
12 Team Standard PPR except QB get 5pts-TD,1pt-30yds
*-starter
QB: Vick*
RB: McCoy*; Charles*; Bradshaw; D. Martin*
WR: Cruz*; Julio*; Blackmon ; Cobb
TE: Pettigrew*
K: Janik*
DEF: Sea; Cin*
IDP: Dqwell*


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PostPosted: Fri 02.10.2012, 21:34 
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rugger48 wrote:
sebringc4 wrote:
Let me caveat that I'm a Giants fan. I try to use the facts, as best as possible, to assess someone's "elite" status, similar to selecting fantasy football players. And I'm not saying I understand all nuances, such as QB ratings. Ialso don't care for the QB rating because for all QBs, I don't believe interceptions should be attributed to QBs if the ball bounces off their receivers hands and other similar situations. Just my opinion.

As some mentioned before, someone can have an "elite" season or an "elite" career. With all the comparisons regarding current QBs and their histories, we seem to be talking about "elite" careers.

Ben 2004 class 26,579 yds 165 TDs 100 int 92.1 rating 2 Superbowl Wins 2 Sb appearances
Rivers 2004 class 24,285 yds 163 TDs 78 int 95.5 rating 0 Superbowl Wins 0 SB appearances
Eli 2004 class 27,579 yds 185 TDs 129 int 82.2 rating 2 Superbowl Wins 2 SB appearances
Compared to Ben, Eli averaged more in everything, including interceptions unfortunately. Over 8 years, he averaged 125yds per season, 2.5 TDs per season and 3.5 int per season. A wash IMO.

Brady 2001 class 39,979 yds 300 TDs 115 int 96.4 rating 3 Superbowl Wins 5 SB appearances
Brees 2001 class 40,742 yds 281 TDs 146 int 94.0 rating 1 Superbowl Win 1 SB appearance
If you average Eli's last three years, to equalize the number of seasons to Brady and Brees, with the understanding is that he progressed from his rookie season, he may have:
Eli 40,435 yds 272 TDs 184 int

Peyton 1998 class 54,828 yds 399 TDs 198 int 94.9 rating 1 Superbowl Win 2 SB appearances
If you add the three year average again to make it six years, to equalize Peyton, Eli may have:
Eli 53,491 yds 359 TDs 239 int 4 Superbowl Wins 4 SB appearances (just kidding here!)

Comparable in yards. Comparable in TDs. What he loses in interceptions, I believe he makes up for it in Superbowls.

At this rate, if Tom, Drew and Peyton are elite and a HOF candidates, then IMO, so is Eli.

And if anyone believes Ben is included in this conversation, then so should Eli.

The real outcome will be decided in approximately 6 years!



Your trying way to hard here.


I am...you should see the flour on my face for all the baking of the numbers I did!!! :lol:

_________________
12 Team Standard PPR except QB get 5pts-TD,1pt-30yds
*-starter
QB: Vick*
RB: McCoy*; Charles*; Bradshaw; D. Martin*
WR: Cruz*; Julio*; Blackmon ; Cobb
TE: Pettigrew*
K: Janik*
DEF: Sea; Cin*
IDP: Dqwell*


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PostPosted: Sat 02.11.2012, 06:41 
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You guys are relying too much on fantasy stats. He's not an elite fantasy football pick. Forget the stats. Watch the games. See what he does at the line of scrimmage. See the kind of humble leader he is, and how his teammates trust him completely. The guy is a proven winner and comeback king.

It is fair to talk about eli and ben in the same breath, but eli is better. He's a smarter player and is loved by his team, unlike ben. Until Peyton process he can still play, eli is currently no worse than fourth, even if he eliminated two of the guys who are supposedly better.


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PostPosted: Sat 02.11.2012, 11:50 
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KIAball1996 wrote:
You guys are relying too much on fantasy stats. He's not an elite fantasy football pick. Forget the stats. Watch the games. See what he does at the line of scrimmage. See the kind of humble leader he is, and how his teammates trust him completely. The guy is a proven winner and comeback king.

It is fair to talk about eli and ben in the same breath, but eli is better. He's a smarter player and is loved by his team, unlike ben. Until Peyton process he can still play, eli is currently no worse than fourth, even if he eliminated two of the guys who are supposedly better.

The only person who even brought up stats was an Eli supporter. The others were only provided to debunk it.

As for Eli being better than Ben, I don't buy it for a second. And the only way to use "elimination" in the playoffs as an indicator of status is if football is a one on one competition. It is not, so it's pointless.


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PostPosted: Sat 02.11.2012, 12:33 
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sebringc4 wrote:

I am...you should see the flour on my face for all the baking of the numbers I did!!! :lol:


:lol: :Drink)

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PostPosted: Sat 02.11.2012, 14:03 
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PostPosted: Sat 02.11.2012, 14:10 
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Does anyone labeling Ben as elite take into account his horrendous Super Bowl performance?


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PostPosted: Sat 02.11.2012, 14:48 
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Elmagister wrote:
Does anyone labeling Ben as elite take into account his horrendous Super Bowl performance?

Why would it not be considered?


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PostPosted: Sat 02.11.2012, 15:45 
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Elmagister wrote:
Does anyone labeling Ben as elite take into account his horrendous Super Bowl performance?



lets also take into account that it was his second year in the league, the steelers went to the playoffs as a 6 seed. The 3 playoffs games leading to that superbowl he had a comp% of 69% went for 675 yards and 7 tds and 1 int. and they were all on the road. Without Ben they dont get to that super bowl.


Just for the record, Im not one who says Ben is elite. I will say that when it comes to both, I have got them pretty close to the same level. Im at the point that if people have them ranked as elite, I wouldnt argue it, if they dont I wouldnt argue it.


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PostPosted: Sat 02.11.2012, 16:42 
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I think Eli is in the Elite QB class... the guy is just clutch, he doesn't panic and makes the necessary plays to lead his team. Every time I've watched him play he impresses me with his play. I think he makes his receivers better and just gets more out of the guys around him.

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PostPosted: Sat 02.11.2012, 17:09 
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Let's have some more fun...If Eli were on the Packers and Aaron Rogers were on the Giants, the Packers would have won the superbowl.

If Eli were on the 49ers and Alex Smith were on the Giants, the Giants are a sub-.500 team and the 49ers with the Superbowl.

If Eli were on the Patriots and Brady were on the Giants, the Patriots win the Superbowl.

If Eli were on the Saints, the Saints win the Superbowl.

We all know this. Eli proved he is not delusional to say the least.

It's all good though. The Giants always thrive on being under rated. The lack of respect Eli gets bothers me a lot more than it bothers Eli, so the only thing to do is hope he pockets another superbowl mvp trophy -- maybe one after that. And people would still doubt the guy.


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PostPosted: Sat 02.11.2012, 17:18 
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KIAball1996 wrote:
Let's have some more fun...If Eli were on the Packers and Aaron Rogers were on the Giants, the Packers would have won the superbowl.

If Eli were on the 49ers and Alex Smith were on the Giants, the Giants are a sub-.500 team and the 49ers with the Superbowl.

If Eli were on the Patriots and Brady were on the Giants, the Patriots win the Superbowl.

If Eli were on the Saints, the Saints win the Superbowl.

We all know this. Eli proved he is not delusional to say the least.

It's all good though. The Giants always thrive on being under rated. The lack of respect Eli gets bothers me a lot more than it bothers Eli, so the only thing to do is hope he pockets another superbowl mvp trophy -- maybe one after that. And people would still doubt the guy.


Those are interesting statements. Who knows if they are true though. It wasn't QB play that cost any of those teams their seasons.


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PostPosted: Sat 02.11.2012, 17:19 
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KIAball1996 wrote:
Let's have some more fun...If Eli were on the Packers and Aaron Rogers were on the Giants, the Packers would have won the superbowl.

If Eli were on the 49ers and Alex Smith were on the Giants, the Giants are a sub-.500 team and the 49ers with the Superbowl.

If Eli were on the Patriots and Brady were on the Giants, the Patriots win the Superbowl.

If Eli were on the Saints, the Saints win the Superbowl.

We all know this. Eli proved he is not delusional to say the least.

It's all good though. The Giants always thrive on being under rated. The lack of respect Eli gets bothers me a lot more than it bothers Eli, so the only thing to do is hope he pockets another superbowl mvp trophy -- maybe one after that. And people would still doubt the guy.



Im sorry you dont just mix and match players and expect the same results. It doesnt work like this.

Stop using the word clutch people , it means he didnt play well for 55 minutes. More to a qb then being clutch.

If you wanna have fun start a poll, or ask anybody, what qb are you taking for your franchise for the next 4 years?


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