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 Post subject: Re: Another Carolina RB?
PostPosted: Tue 03.20.2012, 09:22 
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pwbowen wrote:
OarChambo wrote:
pwbowen wrote:
vonbearsalot wrote:
I don't know. Knowing that it's only for one year and the fact that he hasn't really practiced at all since entering the NFL, and not while being a feature runner but while splitting carries would really concern me investing in him.

Of course it probably depends on team situation and who is left in the draft, but...I don't think I can see giving a 2nd for him. I don't think the market will really develop for a banged-up committee back.

Now, it seems like Tolbert just really wanted to move back to the South where he's from, and if that's the case (and he's signed for a reasonable 2.1 mil per year) the signing makes more sense.


Almoste every RB in the NFL is a committee back now. Teams don't want to depend on 1 guy unless its Adrian Peterson.

I'd say you 'banged up' comments a bit of hyperbole, since he hasn't missed a game in over 2 years IIRC.

Spin it however way you want he rarely practices and it's because of his health.


And yet, he'll probably still outperform the RBs in this year's draft not named Richardson for the next 3 years. It's not like he's Hardesty or Moreno broken down.

So Stewart wouldnt be worth a late 2 or a 3rd to a team like Pittsburgh today? You proposing he has no trade value?



Ya I would say hes not worth a 2nd or 3rd to pittsburg. If that were a need I would rather have bush for the price. Pitt has way to many holes to fill than to spend a 2nd or 3rd on rb. Market is horrible right now, carolina wont get that.


Last edited by rugger48 on Tue 03.20.2012, 09:25, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Another Carolina RB?
PostPosted: Tue 03.20.2012, 09:25 
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OarChambo wrote:
pwbowen wrote:
OarChambo wrote:
pwbowen wrote:
vonbearsalot wrote:
I don't know. Knowing that it's only for one year and the fact that he hasn't really practiced at all since entering the NFL, and not while being a feature runner but while splitting carries would really concern me investing in him.

Of course it probably depends on team situation and who is left in the draft, but...I don't think I can see giving a 2nd for him. I don't think the market will really develop for a banged-up committee back.

Now, it seems like Tolbert just really wanted to move back to the South where he's from, and if that's the case (and he's signed for a reasonable 2.1 mil per year) the signing makes more sense.


Almoste every RB in the NFL is a committee back now. Teams don't want to depend on 1 guy unless its Adrian Peterson.

I'd say you 'banged up' comments a bit of hyperbole, since he hasn't missed a game in over 2 years IIRC.

Spin it however way you want he rarely practices and it's because of his health.


And yet, he'll probably still outperform the RBs in this year's draft not named Richardson for the next 3 years. It's not like he's Hardesty or Moreno broken down.

So Stewart wouldnt be worth a late 2 or a 3rd to a team like Pittsburgh today? You proposing he has no trade value?
I'm saying his health is a big red flag. He's essentially on a 1 year deal then needs to get paid. If his medical doesn't check out I don't see teams offering much for his services. If it were just $ it'd be one thing, but it's a pick too.


And assuming he clears medical, what's his value? Yes, he'll cost more $ than a rookie but as you can see from the above list, there's a lot of suck entering the league at high draft pick cost at RB.

I do think he's got 3 good years left and as a commodity at RB I don't think GMs plan further than that.

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 Post subject: Re: Another Carolina RB?
PostPosted: Tue 03.20.2012, 09:29 
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I'd love to see the Jags land J Stew and lengthen MJD and JStew's careers.

Not what a MJD dyno owner would want, but in real life yes!

Ofcourse not for a 1st or 2nd rd pick.. RBs aren't worth more than a 3rd rd pick in general, imo.

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 Post subject: Re: Another Carolina RB?
PostPosted: Tue 03.20.2012, 09:54 
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pwbowen wrote:
And assuming he clears medical, what's his value? Yes, he'll cost more $ than a rookie but as you can see from the above list, there's a lot of suck entering the league at high draft pick cost at RB.

That's a lofty assumption, but if he's given a clean bill of health I would value him as a late 2/early 3. I would not take him before Richardson-Martin-Miller regardless of his health. That said, since we don't live in a make believe world that his feet are fine I'd have a hard time taking him instead of some other guys though. I'd probably take a flier on my choice of Polk, James, Pierce, Turbin, etc. and then try to sign J Stew when he becomes a free agent after the season.

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 Post subject: Re: Another Carolina RB?
PostPosted: Tue 03.20.2012, 10:40 
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I'd take JStew over any RB but Richardson in this draft. I am about as big of a Doug Martin fan as you will find, but to say he is more talented than Stewart is absurd IMO. Stewart now is a lot like SJax when he was stuck behind a declining Marshall Faulk. When he gets his shot he is going to go bananas.

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 Post subject: Re: Another Carolina RB?
PostPosted: Tue 03.20.2012, 12:28 
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Great move for Carolina. Stupid, stupid move for Tolbert. Truly baffling.


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 Post subject: Re: Another Carolina RB?
PostPosted: Tue 03.20.2012, 13:01 
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JimHart wrote:
Great move for Carolina. Stupid, stupid move for Tolbert. Truly baffling.


I think Tolbert had different reasons than money to sign with Carolina. He's from Georgia and went to Coastal Carolina University. He wanted to play near his family. I can't blame him for that.

It doesn't make sense from a fantasy football prospective, but from a real football prospective, he's also joining a team where he's familiar with the coaches and system. Sure, he'll be complimenting two really good running backs (both who have a penchant for succumbing to nagging injuries), so it's not all bad.


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 Post subject: Re: Another Carolina RB?
PostPosted: Tue 03.20.2012, 13:10 
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carolina wants to keep both williams and stewart. they have tried recently to work another contract with stewart, but he hasn't wanted to talk about it yet. lots of reasons why and every single one of them is just a turd pulled out of a monkey's butt. no one knows why. could be something big, could be nothing. no one knows.

now on to tolbert...
    • he's an upgrade at FB as a blocker, ball carrier, and receiver.
    • if shockey doesn't come back he'll fill a lot of the roles that shockey did (no, i'm not saying that he will be lining up in the same places). shockey did a lot of work as a blocker and added a tough and reliable safety valve for newton. tolbert will do the same.
    • tolbert will be adding strength to special teams. panthers have been suffering with sorry special teams units for years and it's obvious that they are serious about improving them. they've added two solid special teams guys already, not counting that punter/kicker they brought in.
    • chud and his staff has a very active imagination in play design and calling and tolbert can be used in a ton of ways. him being a FB will give him an excuse to be on the field a lot. being a good receiver gives him even more reasons to be on the field. it will be easier to do gimmick plays with him on the field if he's on a lot doing other things. he's just another wild card player, which is what chud wants.
    if stewart doesn't re-sign with the panthers, or if either williams or stewart get hurt and has to miss time (which is always a possibility with those two) then we have a bit of insurance.

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 Post subject: Re: Another Carolina RB?
PostPosted: Tue 03.20.2012, 13:12 
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I can't believe FBs are even employed in NFL anymore, let alone given good $$.

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 Post subject: Re: Another Carolina RB?
PostPosted: Tue 03.20.2012, 13:13 
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SJSwarm wrote:
I'd take JStew over any RB but Richardson in this draft. I am about as big of a Doug Martin fan as you will find, but to say he is more talented than Stewart is absurd IMO. Stewart now is a lot like SJax when he was stuck behind a declining Marshall Faulk. When he gets his shot he is going to go bananas.

Not more talented, cheaper for longer and he's got less tread on the tires. Talent for talent, J Stew has both him and Miller trumped but the rooks are much more cost efficient.

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 Post subject: Re: Another Carolina RB?
PostPosted: Tue 03.20.2012, 13:20 
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endzoneview wrote:
JimHart wrote:
Great move for Carolina. Stupid, stupid move for Tolbert. Truly baffling.


I think Tolbert had different reasons than money to sign with Carolina. He's from Georgia and went to Coastal Carolina University. He wanted to play near his family. I can't blame him for that.

It doesn't make sense from a fantasy football prospective, but from a real football prospective, he's also joining a team where he's familiar with the coaches and system. Sure, he'll be complimenting two really good running backs (both who have a penchant for succumbing to nagging injuries), so it's not all bad.
i have a feeling he's going to be in on the field for a lot of plays. he might not get a ton of carries or touches, but he'll be on the field a lot.

also, one of the things he and his agent mentioned about him wanting to come here for less was because of cam. dudes's a fan. point is, he thought it was the best thing for him. it's not a place where he could be a fantasy stud, but it is a place where he can see a lot of play time and be a very interesting part of the offense.

one thing also to consider is that after that last game between the panthers and bubba fet (the *saints), rivera said that the panthers needed a darren sproles type player. when he said that i think people were saying that he was wanting a scatback. considering what tolbert can do and that we brought him in, i think what rivera meant was that they wanted a wildcard type player that was going to give you a lot more options. a guy that has a lot of uses and that gives you a lot of opportunities and who can be a real threat when he has the ball. the dude's incredibly fast/quick for a 5'9 247lber and he can power through anyone. he might not be a scat back, but he can get the job done.

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 Post subject: Re: Another Carolina RB?
PostPosted: Tue 03.20.2012, 13:23 
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hankrip wrote:
I can't believe FBs are even employed in NFL anymore, let alone given good $$.

he wasn't given really good money. this year he's only getting $700k and the rest of the years it's around $2mil a year.

considering all the ways he's going to be used and play time he's going to be getting and the talent that he's bringing, the dude is a bargain.

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 Post subject: Re: Another Carolina RB?
PostPosted: Tue 03.20.2012, 13:25 
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raynman wrote:
carolina wants to keep both williams and stewart. they have tried recently to work another contract with stewart, but he hasn't wanted to talk about it yet. lots of reasons why and every single one of them is just a turd pulled out of a monkey's butt. no one knows why. could be something big, could be nothing. no one knows.

now on to tolbert...
    • he's an upgrade at FB as a blocker, ball carrier, and receiver.
    • if shockey doesn't come back he'll fill a lot of the roles that shockey did (no, i'm not saying that he will be lining up in the same places). shockey did a lot of work as a blocker and added a tough and reliable safety valve for newton. tolbert will do the same.
    • tolbert will be adding strength to special teams. panthers have been suffering with sorry special teams units for years and it's obvious that they are serious about improving them. they've added two solid special teams guys already, not counting that punter/kicker they brought in.
    • chud and his staff has a very active imagination in play design and calling and tolbert can be used in a ton of ways. him being a FB will give him an excuse to be on the field a lot. being a good receiver gives him even more reasons to be on the field. it will be easier to do gimmick plays with him on the field if he's on a lot doing other things. he's just another wild card player, which is what chud wants.
    if stewart doesn't re-sign with the panthers, or if either williams or stewart get hurt and has to miss time (which is always a possibility with those two) then we have a bit of insurance.


All true. All this makes it a great signing for Carolina. But for the life of me I can't figure why Tolbert would take less money, to be used less, and virtually eliminate him from seeing what he might have been able to accomplish in what is now his prime. If he wanted to go "home" more than all those things that's cool. But it's definitely not the norm in the NFL and I find it puzzling.


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 Post subject: Re: Another Carolina RB?
PostPosted: Tue 03.20.2012, 13:31 
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If the rumors are true, I will say that I respect it. While he left $4 mil in SD, he's still signed for $8.4 mil, which is a lot of money. He can live very well on that if he's even remotely reasonable, and he gets to do it near his family and community.

There are more important things in the world than money. So kudos to him for getting it, if that really is the case.

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 Post subject: Re: Another Carolina RB?
PostPosted: Tue 03.20.2012, 13:33 
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raynman wrote:
hankrip wrote:
I can't believe FBs are even employed in NFL anymore, let alone given good $$.

he wasn't given really good money. this year he's only getting $700k and the rest of the years it's around $2mil a year.

considering all the ways he's going to be used and play time he's going to be getting and the talent that he's bringing, the dude is a bargain.


I was talking in general about FBs. Tolbert obviously has some RB skills that make him more valuable than the typical tree stump FB. Those one dimensional guys really need to find new work in today's NFL.

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Last edited by hankrip on Tue 03.20.2012, 13:33, edited 1 time in total.

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