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PostPosted: Wed 04.18.2012, 13:40 
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Fighting Amish wrote:
found this..unrelated, but just more stats that really doesn't tell much of a story..

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My funny SEC math and reading skills seem to say that Minnesota AND Wisconsin have as many violations as Auburn.

But that shows the SEC is the worst? Sorta looks to me like you should be whining about the PAC-10 with Arizona St, UCLA, USC, Washington and Colorado on that list.

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PostPosted: Wed 04.18.2012, 16:37 
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pwbowen wrote:
birddog wrote:
pwbowen wrote:
birddog wrote:
pwbowen wrote:
quote="birddog" quote="pwbowen"

Methinks perhaps you are taking something too seriously. Twitter/text speak, meh. In what context was this behavior done, on the interwebz or in real life in a business situation?

You may find me being so vulgar that it might make some folks ears bleed if you catch me at just the right time. Or you may hear me when I drift into more of my southern accent at times. To assume that either are how I would be in more serious situations is a mistake./quote aw yaw suthurnrs sown lyk wurd burtuns wit a swullun tung

:wink: /quote

Chicks think a southern accent is sexy. No one thinks sounding like you're from Fargo is.
Eh?

I made it 4 pages w/o posting in this thread.. my personal best of sorts. I could've come in and posted something regarding the unsurprising factoid that this came from the SEC but, I didn't. Nor did I relate Janoris Jenkins' affiliation with it either so I consider it a little personal victory in a sense.

all in fun :wink:

The greatest stat to date leading up to this years' draft: Janoris Jenkins has 1 illegitimate kid for every point Claiborne scored on the wonderlic.


Shrug. It's so cute when you seem to forget the idiots that also come from the Big 10. But if telling yourself that your football players are smarter makes the BCS performances hurt less then I can understand it. :wink:
Which one are you referring to in the last 10-15yrs? Maurice Clarett? All I've got and that idiot got dismissed from OSU (nearly impossible task he should be commended for) yet scored a 20 on the wonderlic. Real dandy.

It is what it is, though. I honestly don't understand the issue here anyway. Its what we've all come to expect from the years of conditioning. "Where? Who?... Oh the SEC.. yea, real shocker. Wake me when there's news."


And that makes me laugh. You're simply perpetuating a myth when you are talking specifically about football. If you really think there's any difference on the kids on to the NFL from Big 10 schools than the kids from the SEC then I have some Florida swampland you'll really enjoy.

How about actually looking at a real statistic from the NCAA like the 2009-2010 Academic Progress Rate? Hopefully you braniacs from the Big Ten can grasp it :wink: :

928 University of Michigan
935 University of Minnesota, Twin Cities
938 Michigan State University
939 Purdue University
947 University of Iowa
949 University of Illinois, Champaign
958 University of Nebraska, Lincoln
966 Indiana University, Bloomington
967 University of Wisconsin, Madison
972 Pennsylvania State University
985 The Ohio State University
993 Northwestern University
Average of 956.42

937 University of Arkansas, Fayetteville
937 University of Tennessee, Knoxville
939 University of Mississippi
940 Auburn University
940 Texas A&M University, College Station
948 University of Kentucky
952 Mississippi State University
954 University of South Carolina, Columbia
963 University of Alabama
966 Louisiana State University
967 University of Missouri, Columbia
976 University of Florida
976 University of Georgia
977 Vanderbilt University
Average of 955.14

Yes, there's obviously some great discrepancy among football players. :lol:


I don't suppose it mentions the great discrepancies in majors and areas of study between Computer Engineering, Pre-Med, Sociology, Business and Kinesiology vs. General Studies, Sport Administration, African American Studies, Sociology and Public Health does it?.. because that might shed some light on those numbers up there Mr SEC... My Big10 edjumication tells me there is so you might want to look into it :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed 04.18.2012, 21:32 
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birddog wrote:
pwbowen wrote:
birddog wrote:
pwbowen wrote:
birddog wrote:
quote="pwbowen" quote="birddog" quote="pwbowen"

Methinks perhaps you are taking something too seriously. Twitter/text speak, meh. In what context was this behavior done, on the interwebz or in real life in a business situation?

You may find me being so vulgar that it might make some folks ears bleed if you catch me at just the right time. Or you may hear me when I drift into more of my southern accent at times. To assume that either are how I would be in more serious situations is a mistake./quote aw yaw suthurnrs sown lyk wurd burtuns wit a swullun tung

:wink: /quote

Chicks think a southern accent is sexy. No one thinks sounding like you're from Fargo is./quote Eh?

I made it 4 pages w/o posting in this thread.. my personal best of sorts. I could've come in and posted something regarding the unsurprising factoid that this came from the SEC but, I didn't. Nor did I relate Janoris Jenkins' affiliation with it either so I consider it a little personal victory in a sense.

all in fun :wink:

The greatest stat to date leading up to this years' draft: Janoris Jenkins has 1 illegitimate kid for every point Claiborne scored on the wonderlic.


Shrug. It's so cute when you seem to forget the idiots that also come from the Big 10. But if telling yourself that your football players are smarter makes the BCS performances hurt less then I can understand it. :wink:
Which one are you referring to in the last 10-15yrs? Maurice Clarett? All I've got and that idiot got dismissed from OSU (nearly impossible task he should be commended for) yet scored a 20 on the wonderlic. Real dandy.

It is what it is, though. I honestly don't understand the issue here anyway. Its what we've all come to expect from the years of conditioning. "Where? Who?... Oh the SEC.. yea, real shocker. Wake me when there's news."


And that makes me laugh. You're simply perpetuating a myth when you are talking specifically about football. If you really think there's any difference on the kids on to the NFL from Big 10 schools than the kids from the SEC then I have some Florida swampland you'll really enjoy.

How about actually looking at a real statistic from the NCAA like the 2009-2010 Academic Progress Rate? Hopefully you braniacs from the Big Ten can grasp it :wink: :

928 University of Michigan
935 University of Minnesota, Twin Cities
938 Michigan State University
939 Purdue University
947 University of Iowa
949 University of Illinois, Champaign
958 University of Nebraska, Lincoln
966 Indiana University, Bloomington
967 University of Wisconsin, Madison
972 Pennsylvania State University
985 The Ohio State University
993 Northwestern University
Average of 956.42

937 University of Arkansas, Fayetteville
937 University of Tennessee, Knoxville
939 University of Mississippi
940 Auburn University
940 Texas A&M University, College Station
948 University of Kentucky
952 Mississippi State University
954 University of South Carolina, Columbia
963 University of Alabama
966 Louisiana State University
967 University of Missouri, Columbia
976 University of Florida
976 University of Georgia
977 Vanderbilt University
Average of 955.14

Yes, there's obviously some great discrepancy among football players. :lol:


I don't suppose it mentions the great discrepancies in majors and areas of study between Computer Engineering, Pre-Med, Sociology, Business and Kinesiology vs. General Studies, Sport Administration, African American Studies, Sociology and Public Health does it?.. because that might shed some light on those numbers up there Mr SEC... My Big10 edjumication tells me there is so you might want to look into it :wink:


Tell ya what, go find the majors of the guys that are drafted from the Big 10. You're still completely full of crap if you want to act like those Badgers are all PreMed and Engineering students.

But hey, list 'em all for us.

The desperation to cling to the notion that Big 10 Football players are smarter is still laughable.

Here ya go, I'll provide the majors for the 2011 All Big-10 Team Offensive Team. I'm verrrrry impressed:
Denard Robinson - Major in General Studies and enrolled in College of Literature, Science and Arts
Edward Baker - Majoring in Inderdisciplinary Studies in Social Science
Montee Ball - Majoring in Sociology
Jeremy Ebert - Learning and Organizational Change Major
Derek Moye - Parks, Recreation and Tourism Major
Kyle Reed - Majoring in Business Administration
Mike Brewster - Strategic Communications
Jeff Allen - Sports Management
Joel Foreman - Criminal Justice
Riley Reiff - Interdepartmental Studies
Ricky Wagner - Consumer Affairs

Those really are some impressive majors there. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Now if you'll load the entire Wisconsin roster I'm sure you'll find some guys who have better majors and great GPA's. Every team, even South Carolina, has them. One of my buddies was an Electrical Engineer who was on the basketball team.

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PostPosted: Thu 04.19.2012, 13:00 
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The stereotype that "Southerners" are somehow less intelligent than "Northerners" is laughable. Some people are more intelligent than others. On sports teams or in business there is a wide range of intellects, in my experience. Combined with the fact that intelligence is very difficult to accurately measure--or even quantify--makes such assumptions ludicrous.

B1G football is really good. SEC football is better. If the kids are dumber down south it certainly doesn't seem to affect their performances.

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PostPosted: Thu 04.19.2012, 13:41 
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pwbowen wrote:

My funny SEC math and reading skills seem to say that Minnesota AND Wisconsin have as many violations as Auburn.

But that shows the SEC is the worst? Sorta looks to me like you should be whining about the PAC-10 with Arizona St, UCLA, USC, Washington and Colorado on that list.


I just reposted a stat from another website, where i have no idea what the topic was, or why Auburn was highlighted. My point in posting it was to show how a statistic chart or piece of info is woefully incomplete and weak when details of the items and how they arrived at them are not shown.

I wasn't pointing fingers at the sec or anyone else, for violations..just look at the chart..big 10 schools in which i have no recollection of these violations are listed.

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PostPosted: Thu 04.19.2012, 14:02 
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Fighting Amish wrote:
pwbowen wrote:

My funny SEC math and reading skills seem to say that Minnesota AND Wisconsin have as many violations as Auburn.

But that shows the SEC is the worst? Sorta looks to me like you should be whining about the PAC-10 with Arizona St, UCLA, USC, Washington and Colorado on that list.


I just reposted a stat from another website, where i have no idea what the topic was, or why Auburn was highlighted. My point in posting it was to show how a statistic chart or piece of info is woefully incomplete and weak when details of the items and how they arrived at them are not shown.

I wasn't pointing fingers at the sec or anyone else, for violations..just look at the chart..big 10 schools in which i have no recollection of these violations are listed.


Agreed. And I'd imagine the Minnesota thing was somehow tied to Holtz, just from personal experience with thhhhort-cut Lou.

But the headlines to those type of blurbs are just further illustrations of the perpetuation of the stereotypes of the SEC when it's not even the SEC that has the most repeat offenders on that list.

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PostPosted: Thu 04.19.2012, 14:39 
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pwbowen wrote:
Fighting Amish wrote:
pwbowen wrote:

My funny SEC math and reading skills seem to say that Minnesota AND Wisconsin have as many violations as Auburn.

But that shows the SEC is the worst? Sorta looks to me like you should be whining about the PAC-10 with Arizona St, UCLA, USC, Washington and Colorado on that list.


I just reposted a stat from another website, where i have no idea what the topic was, or why Auburn was highlighted. My point in posting it was to show how a statistic chart or piece of info is woefully incomplete and weak when details of the items and how they arrived at them are not shown.

I wasn't pointing fingers at the sec or anyone else, for violations..just look at the chart..big 10 schools in which i have no recollection of these violations are listed.


Agreed. And I'd imagine the Minnesota thing was somehow tied to Holtz, just from personal experience with thhhhort-cut Lou.

But the headlines to those type of blurbs are just further illustrations of the perpetuation of the stereotypes of the SEC when it's not even the SEC that has the most repeat offenders on that list.


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PostPosted: Thu 04.19.2012, 14:46 
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Dick Spielman GM of the Toronto Vikings has been gushing his man gravy all over Claiborne. The vikes sound like they are ready to draft him at 1.3. That will destroy just about every mock out there and send the draft into a tail spin of value.

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PostPosted: Thu 04.19.2012, 19:43 
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pwbowen wrote:
birddog wrote:
pwbowen wrote:
birddog wrote:
pwbowen wrote:

Shrug. It's so cute when you seem to forget the idiots that also come from the Big 10. But if telling yourself that your football players are smarter makes the BCS performances hurt less then I can understand it. :wink:
Which one are you referring to in the last 10-15yrs? Maurice Clarett? All I've got and that idiot got dismissed from OSU (nearly impossible task he should be commended for) yet scored a 20 on the wonderlic. Real dandy.

It is what it is, though. I honestly don't understand the issue here anyway. Its what we've all come to expect from the years of conditioning. "Where? Who?... Oh the SEC.. yea, real shocker. Wake me when there's news."


And that makes me laugh. You're simply perpetuating a myth when you are talking specifically about football. If you really think there's any difference on the kids on to the NFL from Big 10 schools than the kids from the SEC then I have some Florida swampland you'll really enjoy.

How about actually looking at a real statistic from the NCAA like the 2009-2010 Academic Progress Rate? Hopefully you braniacs from the Big Ten can grasp it :wink: :

928 University of Michigan
935 University of Minnesota, Twin Cities
938 Michigan State University
939 Purdue University
947 University of Iowa
949 University of Illinois, Champaign
958 University of Nebraska, Lincoln
966 Indiana University, Bloomington
967 University of Wisconsin, Madison
972 Pennsylvania State University
985 The Ohio State University
993 Northwestern University
Average of 956.42

937 University of Arkansas, Fayetteville
937 University of Tennessee, Knoxville
939 University of Mississippi
940 Auburn University
940 Texas A&M University, College Station
948 University of Kentucky
952 Mississippi State University
954 University of South Carolina, Columbia
963 University of Alabama
966 Louisiana State University
967 University of Missouri, Columbia
976 University of Florida
976 University of Georgia
977 Vanderbilt University
Average of 955.14

Yes, there's obviously some great discrepancy among football players. :lol:


I don't suppose it mentions the great discrepancies in majors and areas of study between Computer Engineering, Pre-Med, Sociology, Business and Kinesiology vs. General Studies, Sport Administration, African American Studies, Sociology and Public Health does it?.. because that might shed some light on those numbers up there Mr SEC... My Big10 edjumication tells me there is so you might want to look into it :wink:


Tell ya what, go find the majors of the guys that are drafted from the Big 10. You're still completely full of crap if you want to act like those Badgers are all PreMed and Engineering students.

But hey, list 'em all for us.

The desperation to cling to the notion that Big 10 Football players are smarter is still laughable.

Here ya go, I'll provide the majors for the 2011 All Big-10 Team Offensive Team. I'm verrrrry impressed:
Denard Robinson - Major in General Studies and enrolled in College of Literature, Science and Arts
Edward Baker - Majoring in Inderdisciplinary Studies in Social Science
Montee Ball - Majoring in Sociology
Jeremy Ebert - Learning and Organizational Change Major
Derek Moye - Parks, Recreation and Tourism Major
Kyle Reed - Majoring in Business Administration
Mike Brewster - Strategic Communications
Jeff Allen - Sports Management
Joel Foreman - Criminal Justice
Riley Reiff - Interdepartmental Studies
Ricky Wagner - Consumer Affairs

Those really are some impressive majors there. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Now if you'll load the entire Wisconsin roster I'm sure you'll find some guys who have better majors and great GPA's. Every team, even South Carolina, has them. One of my buddies was an Electrical Engineer who was on the basketball team.


Where the hell did you get that list? www.randomSECfootballmusings.com? :lol:

Oh this is going to get fun :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu 04.19.2012, 21:58 
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birddog wrote:
pwbowen wrote:
birddog wrote:
pwbowen wrote:
birddog wrote:
quote="pwbowen"

Shrug. It's so cute when you seem to forget the idiots that also come from the Big 10. But if telling yourself that your football players are smarter makes the BCS performances hurt less then I can understand it. :wink: /quote. which one are you referring to in the last 10-15yrs? Maurice Clarett? All I've got and that idiot got dismissed from OSU (nearly impossible task he should be commended for) yet scored a 20 on the wonderlic. Real dandy.

It is what it is, though. I honestly don't understand the issue here anyway. Its what we've all come to expect from the years of conditioning. "Where? Who?... Oh the SEC.. yea, real shocker. Wake me when there's news."


And that makes me laugh. You're simply perpetuating a myth when you are talking specifically about football. If you really think there's any difference on the kids on to the NFL from Big 10 schools than the kids from the SEC then I have some Florida swampland you'll really enjoy.

How about actually looking at a real statistic from the NCAA like the 2009-2010 Academic Progress Rate? Hopefully you braniacs from the Big Ten can grasp it :wink: :

928 University of Michigan
935 University of Minnesota, Twin Cities
938 Michigan State University
939 Purdue University
947 University of Iowa
949 University of Illinois, Champaign
958 University of Nebraska, Lincoln
966 Indiana University, Bloomington
967 University of Wisconsin, Madison
972 Pennsylvania State University
985 The Ohio State University
993 Northwestern University
Average of 956.42

937 University of Arkansas, Fayetteville
937 University of Tennessee, Knoxville
939 University of Mississippi
940 Auburn University
940 Texas A&M University, College Station
948 University of Kentucky
952 Mississippi State University
954 University of South Carolina, Columbia
963 University of Alabama
966 Louisiana State University
967 University of Missouri, Columbia
976 University of Florida
976 University of Georgia
977 Vanderbilt University
Average of 955.14

Yes, there's obviously some great discrepancy among football players. :lol:


I don't suppose it mentions the great discrepancies in majors and areas of study between Computer Engineering, Pre-Med, Sociology, Business and Kinesiology vs. General Studies, Sport Administration, African American Studies, Sociology and Public Health does it?.. because that might shed some light on those numbers up there Mr SEC... My Big10 edjumication tells me there is so you might want to look into it :wink:


Tell ya what, go find the majors of the guys that are drafted from the Big 10. You're still completely full of crap if you want to act like those Badgers are all PreMed and Engineering students.

But hey, list 'em all for us.

The desperation to cling to the notion that Big 10 Football players are smarter is still laughable.

Here ya go, I'll provide the majors for the 2011 All Big-10 Team Offensive Team. I'm verrrrry impressed:
Denard Robinson - Major in General Studies and enrolled in College of Literature, Science and Arts
Edward Baker - Majoring in Inderdisciplinary Studies in Social Science
Montee Ball - Majoring in Sociology
Jeremy Ebert - Learning and Organizational Change Major
Derek Moye - Parks, Recreation and Tourism Major
Kyle Reed - Majoring in Business Administration
Mike Brewster - Strategic Communications
Jeff Allen - Sports Management
Joel Foreman - Criminal Justice
Riley Reiff - Interdepartmental Studies
Ricky Wagner - Consumer Affairs

Those really are some impressive majors there. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Now if you'll load the entire Wisconsin roster I'm sure you'll find some guys who have better majors and great GPA's. Every team, even South Carolina, has them. One of my buddies was an Electrical Engineer who was on the basketball team.


Where the hell did you get that list? http://www.randomSECfootballmusings.com? :lol:

Oh this is going to get fun :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


The All Big 10 team? Try google, it's really cool.

The team numbers comes from this thing called the NCAA.

I guess you'll now declare that either the players are wrong or the majors aren't right? It's ok, Birddonquixote, joust away. :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu 04.19.2012, 22:42 
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Here I'll help out http://www.bigten.org/sports/m-footbl/s ... 11aad.html <-- pdf file at the top.. http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/big ... inners.pdf ... go right to the source you find the info :wink:

All-SEC selections: http://www.secdigitalnetwork.com/tabid/ ... unced.aspx

Alabama hides their 'Student Athlete' majors.. Bios don't have a single major or area of study listed. Interesting factoid I've never seen in my life before looking at 'Student Athlete' Bios. I suppose I'd hide them too if I was Alabama.

If I may digress a moment.. every try finding SEC "Student Athlete" GPAs? fyi - Don't waste your time. Its like trying to find fish in a corn field.

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PostPosted: Fri 04.20.2012, 07:26 
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birddog wrote:
Here I'll help out http://www.bigten.org/sports/m-footbl/s ... 11aad.html <-- pdf file at the top.. http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/big ... inners.pdf ... go right to the source you find the info :wink:

All-SEC selections: http://www.secdigitalnetwork.com/tabid/ ... unced.aspx

Alabama hides their 'Student Athlete' majors.. Bios don't have a single major or area of study listed. Interesting factoid I've never seen in my life before looking at 'Student Athlete' Bios. I suppose I'd hide them too if I was Alabama.

If I may digress a moment.. every try finding SEC "Student Athlete" GPAs? fyi - Don't waste your time. Its like trying to find fish in a corn field.


Shrug. I pulled the first All Big 10 Team which happened to be from Athlon:
http://www.athlonsports.com/college-football/athlons-2011-all-big-ten-team

Individual GPA's now? You're becoming the definition of a moving target.

The point here, which seems to be conveniently ignored, is that the guys that are put into the pros aren't significantly 'smarter' from the Big 10 as you seem to claim when you want to try to pile onto a player such as Claiborne. The guys that are the elite kids out of high school are always recruiting by BOTH the SEC and the Big 10, are they not?

The NCAA grades show that the overall performance based on football teams is pretty similar according to the NCAA's Academic Progress Rate as shown by the numbers. There's no proof that the elite Big 10 guys are taking much harder majors than the elite SEC guys as you claimed that I can see either, unless you think a Sociology is impressive. Hint, it's not. Stephen Garcia graduated with one.

If you want to say the 2nd and 3rd stringers are smarter at the Big 10, sure, why not? But really, who gives a flying fark unless you're related to one of them?

Do you want to believe that the guys that are going through the SEC system are products of complete academic fraud to remain eligible? That's up to you and not any more worth arguing about than political or religious beliefs.

It's a fact that schools lower standards to get athletes, especially football players, into school that normally wouldn't qualify, from http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4781264:

If grades make you a long shot for college, you're much more likely to get a break if you can play ball.

An Associated Press review of admissions data submitted to the NCAA by most of the 120 schools in college football's top tier shows that athletes enjoy strikingly better odds of having admission requirements bent on their behalf.

The notion that college athletes' talents give them a leg up in the admissions game isn't a surprise. But in what NCAA officials called the most extensive review to date, the AP found the practice is widespread and can be found in every major conference.


My argument is about the elite players across conferences being similar when entering the NFL. The myth that Big 10 players are smarter than SEC players in that talent pool is just that. There will be outliers in any sample group, both good and bad, but overall the mean of each group is the same.

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PostPosted: Fri 04.20.2012, 10:28 
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pwbowen wrote:
birddog wrote:
Here I'll help out http://www.bigten.org/sports/m-footbl/s ... 11aad.html <-- pdf file at the top.. http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/big ... inners.pdf ... go right to the source you find the info :wink:

All-SEC selections: http://www.secdigitalnetwork.com/tabid/ ... unced.aspx

Alabama hides their 'Student Athlete' majors.. Bios don't have a single major or area of study listed. Interesting factoid I've never seen in my life before looking at 'Student Athlete' Bios. I suppose I'd hide them too if I was Alabama.

If I may digress a moment.. every try finding SEC "Student Athlete" GPAs? fyi - Don't waste your time. Its like trying to find fish in a corn field.


Shrug. I pulled the first All Big 10 Team which happened to be from Athlon:
http://www.athlonsports.com/college-football/athlons-2011-all-big-ten-team

Individual GPA's now? You're becoming the definition of a moving target.

The point here, which seems to be conveniently ignored, is that the guys that are put into the pros aren't significantly 'smarter' from the Big 10 as you seem to claim when you want to try to pile onto a player such as Claiborne. The guys that are the elite kids out of high school are always recruiting by BOTH the SEC and the Big 10, are they not?

The NCAA grades show that the overall performance based on football teams is pretty similar according to the NCAA's Academic Progress Rate as shown by the numbers. There's no proof that the elite Big 10 guys are taking much harder majors than the elite SEC guys as you claimed that I can see either, unless you think a Sociology is impressive. Hint, it's not. Stephen Garcia graduated with one.

If you want to say the 2nd and 3rd stringers are smarter at the Big 10, sure, why not? But really, who gives a flying fark unless you're related to one of them?

Do you want to believe that the guys that are going through the SEC system are products of complete academic fraud to remain eligible? That's up to you and not any more worth arguing about than political or religious beliefs.

It's a fact that schools lower standards to get athletes, especially football players, into school that normally wouldn't qualify, from http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4781264:

If grades make you a long shot for college, you're much more likely to get a break if you can play ball.

An Associated Press review of admissions data submitted to the NCAA by most of the 120 schools in college football's top tier shows that athletes enjoy strikingly better odds of having admission requirements bent on their behalf.

The notion that college athletes' talents give them a leg up in the admissions game isn't a surprise. But in what NCAA officials called the most extensive review to date, the AP found the practice is widespread and can be found in every major conference.


My argument is about the elite players across conferences being similar when entering the NFL. The myth that Big 10 players are smarter than SEC players in that talent pool is just that. There will be outliers in any sample group, both good and bad, but overall the mean of each group is the same.


A moving target? .. not at all, p. Quite the opposite.

-You claimed ^^ "you seem to forget the idiots that also come from the Big 10"... I responded: "which one are you referring to in the last 10-15yrs? Maurice Clarett? All I've got.." ? ... you reply with nothing relating to it or refernencing any supposed 'idiots' from the Big10... nothing.

- You respond and claim, "And that makes me laugh. You're simply perpetuating a myth when you are talking specifically about football. If you really think there's any difference on the kids on to the NFL from Big 10 schools than the kids from the SEC then I have some Florida swampland you'll really enjoy.". Then follow it by posting gross interpretation of 'academic achievement' in form of Academic Progress Rates claiming (sarcastically), "Yes, there's obviously some great discrepancy among football players." :snicker: ... to which I respond: "I don't suppose it mentions the great discrepancies in majors and areas of study.." Since its clearly a flawed representation of academia and study.

- You respond, "Tell ya what, go find the majors of the guys that are drafted from the Big 10. You're still completely full of crap (proceeded by reference to one single school, Badgers - yet the topic were referencing encompasses an entire conference) ..But hey, list 'em all for us. The desperation to cling to the notion that Big 10 Football players are smarter is still laughable." Then proceed to list a partial yet incorrect list of Big10 players and follow with, " if you'll load the entire Wisconsin roster I'm sure you'll find some guys who have better majors and great GPA's. Every team, even South Carolina, has them.."

- continues onto me posting actual conference links to the All-Conference Team press releases. I later find and point out that the National Champions don't even list the 'Student Athlete' majors in their bios when referencing the institutions Student Athlete pagers. One would have to trust wiki that their info is current/complete yet I found the persons that started those wiki bios didn't/couldn't find that info and list actual or complete info...

which brings us along to you listing other items/issues that discredit acedemia and sturdy that I'm/we're you're now chasing. -

Now,.. would you like to retract your claim of, "You're becoming the definition of a moving target.".

Who's the moving target?

It seams par for the course that the SEC side of this is jumping around like a cat on a hot tin roof :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri 04.20.2012, 19:01 
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birddog wrote:
pwbowen wrote:
Individual GPA's now? You're becoming the definition of a moving target.

The point here, which seems to be conveniently ignored, is that the guys that are put into the pros aren't significantly 'smarter' from the Big 10 as you seem to claim when you want to try to pile onto a player such as Claiborne. The guys that are the elite kids out of high school are always recruiting by BOTH the SEC and the Big 10, are they not?

The NCAA grades show that the overall performance based on football teams is pretty similar according to the NCAA's Academic Progress Rate as shown by the numbers. There's no proof that the elite Big 10 guys are taking much harder majors than the elite SEC guys as you claimed that I can see either, unless you think a Sociology is impressive. Hint, it's not. Stephen Garcia graduated with one.

If you want to say the 2nd and 3rd stringers are smarter at the Big 10, sure, why not? But really, who gives a flying fark unless you're related to one of them?

Do you want to believe that the guys that are going through the SEC system are products of complete academic fraud to remain eligible? That's up to you and not any more worth arguing about than political or religious beliefs.

It's a fact that schools lower standards to get athletes, especially football players, into school that normally wouldn't qualify, from http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4781264:

If grades make you a long shot for college, you're much more likely to get a break if you can play ball.

An Associated Press review of admissions data submitted to the NCAA by most of the 120 schools in college football's top tier shows that athletes enjoy strikingly better odds of having admission requirements bent on their behalf.

The notion that college athletes' talents give them a leg up in the admissions game isn't a surprise. But in what NCAA officials called the most extensive review to date, the AP found the practice is widespread and can be found in every major conference.


My argument is about the elite players across conferences being similar when entering the NFL. The myth that Big 10 players are smarter than SEC players in that talent pool is just that. There will be outliers in any sample group, both good and bad, but overall the mean of each group is the same.


A moving target? .. not at all, p. Quite the opposite.

-You claimed ^^ "you seem to forget the idiots that also come from the Big 10"... I responded: "which one are you referring to in the last 10-15yrs? Maurice Clarett? All I've got.." ? ... you reply with nothing relating to it or refernencing any supposed 'idiots' from the Big10... nothing.

- You respond and claim, "And that makes me laugh. You're simply perpetuating a myth when you are talking specifically about football. If you really think there's any difference on the kids on to the NFL from Big 10 schools than the kids from the SEC then I have some Florida swampland you'll really enjoy.". Then follow it by posting gross interpretation of 'academic achievement' in form of Academic Progress Rates claiming (sarcastically), "Yes, there's obviously some great discrepancy among football players." :snicker: ... to which I respond: "I don't suppose it mentions the great discrepancies in majors and areas of study.." Since its clearly a flawed representation of academia and study.

- You respond, "Tell ya what, go find the majors of the guys that are drafted from the Big 10. You're still completely full of crap (proceeded by reference to one single school, Badgers - yet the topic were referencing encompasses an entire conference) ..But hey, list 'em all for us. The desperation to cling to the notion that Big 10 Football players are smarter is still laughable." Then proceed to list a partial yet incorrect list of Big10 players and follow with, " if you'll load the entire Wisconsin roster I'm sure you'll find some guys who have better majors and great GPA's. Every team, even South Carolina, has them.."

- continues onto me posting actual conference links to the All-Conference Team press releases. I later find and point out that the National Champions don't even list the 'Student Athlete' majors in their bios when referencing the institutions Student Athlete pagers. One would have to trust wiki that their info is current/complete yet I found the persons that started those wiki bios didn't/couldn't find that info and list actual or complete info...

which brings us along to you listing other items/issues that discredit acedemia and sturdy that I'm/we're you're now chasing. -

Now,.. would you like to retract your claim of, "You're becoming the definition of a moving target.".

Who's the moving target?

It seams par for the course that the SEC side of this is jumping around like a cat on a hot tin roof :wink:


Deleted for simplicity sake.

1.) I apologize since I care so little that I'm not going to look up arrest rates and find which idiots are from which conference. But sure, let's assume you're right and there are none from the Big 10. :roll:

2.) The NCAA Academic Progress Rate doesn't show that kids are actually progressing to degrees as they supposed to? Then you find us a better metric instead.

3.) Please highlight which guys heading to the NFL have actual difficult majors from the Big 10. It's your claim that you used to deride Academic Progress, so please illuminate the point. And no, you can't claim Russell Wilson. He came, understandably to play football for another year.

4.) If there's a rocket scientist on the different all-conference list, please do point it out.

5.) I made no claims as to the majors of SEC football players being difficult, simply that they are probably on par with other major football stars' majors. Therefor, why would I need to spend the time to dig them up?

The point is simple yet elegantly avoided with a long-winded post: there is very little difference in displayed intelligence of elite football players among different NCAA conferences. If you can actually show otherwise, please inform me.

^^^That is why I treat your constant whining and degradation of SEC football players over all others to be quite silly.

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PostPosted: Sat 04.21.2012, 20:39 
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"Constant whining and degradation of SEC football players"? Goodness. Constant, huh? Does it coincide with your constant boasting and blathering of 'successes'? Wonder if the crap wasn't constant would anyone have anything to say? What, we can hand out praise and people can boast constantly but not take/accept criticism?

I think you're boiling your Okra again. The SEC has cultivated its own attention and reputation. Not my fault. All I mentioned was, "Wake me when there's news.".

If there wasn't constant crap coming from the conference anybody that follows college ball wouldn't give it a thought. Its not 'news' if its always happening RE: conditioned to it. If the institutions/conference atmosphere never changes, reap what you sow, right? Last year alone was it 10-20? LSU players were academically ineligible while #1 in the nation? Coach of the Year Les Miles response (paraphrased) 'Everybody's ineligible. Happens everywhere so whats the issue?'. 4 players (top 2 DB's and RB) got suspended 1 game (1 game?) for failed drug tests. Starting QB (and a LB or DB?) were suspended 4 games for a felony bar fight to start the season? Thats just from everyday following not sitting here looking.

Come bowl time headlines were swirled again yet the team votes 5 bowl captains - Claiborne, Mathieu, Jefferson, Blackwell and I can't recall the other kid. <--team leaders? Captains? Set the standards high I see. "Tradition". Here, when I was looking at the SEC All Conf. team I noticed a trend in majors with the LSU players so I took a closer look

LSU's 2011 Football Roster
122 student athletes
- 12 w/o bio info-- of those 12 all are underclassmen-- only 11 are on 2012's roster and those 11 are still w/o bio info
- 34 Undeclared/General Studies (30%)
- 30 Sport Administration (28%)
- 12 Management (11%)
- 11 "Undecided" ( 10% (1-Jr, 1-Sr and Micheal Brockers))

LSU must have the best YMCA management school in the U.S. that supports individuality in education by encouraging their 'Student Athletes' to design their own curriculum.. ironically they've had top5-10 recruiting classes every year since plastic was invented.

Now wheres that official NCAA Academic Progress Rate? Think this skews it as I pointed out previously? Toss in a kid with ambition and it screws up the LSU grading curve. (Yes. I just used 'grading curve' and 'LSU' in the same sentence :lol: )

Pardon, I'm whining and degrading the SEC. I'm the cause. I apologize. I should be showering praise for holding such respectable standards.

Quote:
5.) I made no claims as to the majors of SEC football players being difficult, simply that they are probably on par with other major football stars' majors. Therefor, why would I need to spend the time to dig them up?

but you gathered both an incomplete yet incorrect list of Big10 players and posted that?.. now pleading ignorance by adhering to assumption yet standing pat pointing.. seriously, p? C'mon, you're better than that.

You're twisting a helluva tale. Gotta hand it to ya.. just remember I'm not in SEC country and my brothers the Clemson grad in the family :wink:

btw lists coming along as I have time to organize it ;)

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