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 Post subject: Re: Felix Jones
PostPosted: Thu 08.02.2012, 18:10 
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jcalebmoore wrote:
TheNataliePortmans wrote:
jcalebmoore wrote:
Nope. Tanner is the more likely handcuff even at this point IMO. Showing up and failing the conditioning test will probably be the last straw in that transition.


That's pure speculation on your part.

Maybe you'll be right, maybe you won't.

By the way, can we all agree to excise "IMO" from our lexicon?

We know it's your opinion. It's a discussion board.


So there are no statements of fact here? Don't be ridiculous. It's worth noting when something is opinion or speculation instead of based on fact.


I hate to engage in another argument so soon, so I'll just leave this here...

RBX ran for YYYY yards in 2011. (Fact)
RBX will run for YYYY yards in 2012. (Opinion)

Haha, there's never a scenario where IMO or "I think" is needed, it's just a habit for a lot of people. Almost everyone slips on occasion and does it.

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WR:Brown,Green,Wallace,Floyd,Decker
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QB:Wilson
RB:Foster,McCoy,Jennings,Robinson,Ivory
WR:Green,Hilton,Hopkins,Randle,Floyd
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 Post subject: Re: Felix Jones
PostPosted: Thu 08.02.2012, 18:10 
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jcalebmoore wrote:
Third and Long wrote:
jcalebmoore wrote:
Nope. Tanner is the more likely handcuff even at this point IMO. Showing up and failing the conditioning test will probably be the last straw in that transition.


really? I doubt that Jones who was a first rounder that played well in the latter stages of last season will give way to Tanner this year, next year, yeah but not this year, treating this backfield like any other with a decent back up, will take the starter and then grab the handcuff a round earlier than ADP warrants so I can ensure a starter when the first guy goes down


You'd proably have a better sense of it than I would from where you are, but what I was reading was giving me a sense that the Felix experiment was coming to an abrupt end. Is Felix the handcuff by the end of the season in your opinion?


I am under the impression that Felix will be given 8-12 touches a game, I lean toward the higher end when you add in kick off returns, he's good at picking up the blitz and very good at pass catching, how much he takes away from Murray still remains to be seen, Murray has the potential to be something special but I have heard/seen the next "potential" Emmitt in Dallas x 3 in Julius Jones, Felix Jones and now Murray so I'm more skeptical than most Cowboy fans when it comes to Murray ( who I love) ....


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 Post subject: Re: Felix Jones
PostPosted: Thu 08.02.2012, 18:19 
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Pad264 wrote:
jcalebmoore wrote:
TheNataliePortmans wrote:
jcalebmoore wrote:
Nope. Tanner is the more likely handcuff even at this point IMO. Showing up and failing the conditioning test will probably be the last straw in that transition.


That's pure speculation on your part.

Maybe you'll be right, maybe you won't.

By the way, can we all agree to excise "IMO" from our lexicon?

We know it's your opinion. It's a discussion board.


So there are no statements of fact here? Don't be ridiculous. It's worth noting when something is opinion or speculation instead of based on fact.


I hate to engage in another argument so soon, so I'll just leave this here...

RBX ran for YYYY yards in 2011. (Fact)
RBX will run for YYYY yards in 2012. (Opinion)

Haha, there's never a scenario where IMO or "I think" is needed, it's just a habit for a lot of people. Almost everyone slips on occasion and does it.


Here's where it gets blurry: 'RBX will be the number 2 RB on the depth chart at the beginning of the season'. Now is that an opinion based on personal preference or a stronger statement of fact based on knowledge of the situation such as reading a report from the coach that intimated such, or perhaps it is the general consensus of most with an opinion on the subject? Using 'I think' or 'IMO' seems to underscore that it's a weaker statement based strictly on the leanings of the poster.... in my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Felix Jones
PostPosted: Thu 08.02.2012, 18:20 
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Third and Long wrote:
jcalebmoore wrote:
Third and Long wrote:
jcalebmoore wrote:
Nope. Tanner is the more likely handcuff even at this point IMO. Showing up and failing the conditioning test will probably be the last straw in that transition.


really? I doubt that Jones who was a first rounder that played well in the latter stages of last season will give way to Tanner this year, next year, yeah but not this year, treating this backfield like any other with a decent back up, will take the starter and then grab the handcuff a round earlier than ADP warrants so I can ensure a starter when the first guy goes down


You'd proably have a better sense of it than I would from where you are, but what I was reading was giving me a sense that the Felix experiment was coming to an abrupt end. Is Felix the handcuff by the end of the season in your opinion?


I am under the impression that Felix will be given 8-12 touches a game, I lean toward the higher end when you add in kick off returns, he's good at picking up the blitz and very good at pass catching, how much he takes away from Murray still remains to be seen, Murray has the potential to be something special but I have heard/seen the next "potential" Emmitt in Dallas x 3 in Julius Jones, Felix Jones and now Murray so I'm more skeptical than most Cowboy fans when it comes to Murray ( who I love) ....


That much huh? I'll have to re-evaluate my gunning for Felix. I thought I might be able to handcuff Murray for cheaper if Tanner was the guy. Probably just wishful thinking.

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 Post subject: Re: Felix Jones
PostPosted: Thu 08.02.2012, 18:24 
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jcalebmoore wrote:
Pad264 wrote:
jcalebmoore wrote:
TheNataliePortmans wrote:
jcalebmoore wrote:
Nope. Tanner is the more likely handcuff even at this point IMO. Showing up and failing the conditioning test will probably be the last straw in that transition.


That's pure speculation on your part.

Maybe you'll be right, maybe you won't.

By the way, can we all agree to excise "IMO" from our lexicon?

We know it's your opinion. It's a discussion board.


So there are no statements of fact here? Don't be ridiculous. It's worth noting when something is opinion or speculation instead of based on fact.


I hate to engage in another argument so soon, so I'll just leave this here...

RBX ran for YYYY yards in 2011. (Fact)
RBX will run for YYYY yards in 2012. (Opinion)

Haha, there's never a scenario where IMO or "I think" is needed, it's just a habit for a lot of people. Almost everyone slips on occasion and does it.


Here's where it gets blurry: 'RBX will be the number 2 RB on the depth chart at the beginning of the season'. Now is that an opinion based on personal preference or a stronger statement of fact based on knowledge of the situation such as reading a report from the coach that intimated such, or perhaps it is the general consensus of most with an opinion on the subject? Using 'I think' or 'IMO' seems to underscore that it's a weaker statement based strictly on the leanings of the poster.... in my opinion.


I see what you're getting at, but even in your example, that's obviously opinion. It's a future projection, not a statement of fact. If it was a statement of fact, it would either have to be a quote from the coach (in which case it's his opinion; obviously very valuable though) or reworded to "RBX is the number 2 RB on the depth chart."

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QB:Brees
RB:Charles,Ingram,Jennings,F.Jackson,Robinson,Williams
WR:Brown,Green,Wallace,Floyd,Decker
TE:Olsen,Donnell

10team ppr
QB:Wilson
RB:Foster,McCoy,Jennings,Robinson,Ivory
WR:Green,Hilton,Hopkins,Randle,Floyd
TE:Ertz


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 Post subject: Re: Felix Jones
PostPosted: Thu 08.02.2012, 18:24 
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jnadke wrote:
Do the Dallas Cowboys have any fantasy value this season?






I kid, I kid.



And the answer is no, not unless you're in a 3RB PPR league.

Or as a handcuff to DeMarco (I've never been a fan of handcuffs, I'd rather grab another guy with upside).


but isn't another player with upside basically another players handcuff. why not grab your own handcuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Felix Jones
PostPosted: Thu 08.02.2012, 20:04 
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DrunkLikeAChampion wrote:
jnadke wrote:
Do the Dallas Cowboys have any fantasy value this season?






I kid, I kid.



And the answer is no, not unless you're in a 3RB PPR league.

Or as a handcuff to DeMarco (I've never been a fan of handcuffs, I'd rather grab another guy with upside).


but isn't another player with upside basically another players handcuff. why not grab your own handcuff.


That's an interesting question.

I never used to bother with handcuffs. I figured I could get 3-4 legit starting NFL RBs.

With the advent of committees and fewer rushing attempts, I'm taking a closer look.

Here's a potential problem: it you really want your starter's handcuff, sometimes you have to reach for him. In doing so, you might be missing out on that 4th WR.

For example, in mocks, I'm targeting Felix as a handcuff at 9.11 or 10.2. I often get him there. Sometimes he goes in the 8th or early 9th.

So let's assume I would have to take him in the 8th to make sure I got him. First of all, that's 8.02, the 86th overall pick. Why would I take him there when I could a James Starks or Donald Brown or Peyton Hillis?

It's a tough call.

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Lost to INJ: Cruz, Cooks, McKinnon


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 Post subject: Re: Felix Jones
PostPosted: Thu 08.02.2012, 22:53 
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DrunkLikeAChampion wrote:
but isn't another player with upside basically another players handcuff. why not grab your own handcuff.

The answer is it depends.

If you have Arian Foster, you absolutely grab Ben Tate. Because Ben Tate is also a 3-down back.

Felix Jones is not a 3-down back. He's Matt Forte lite. He can catch, he can be elusive at times, and he can pass-block. But he's useless in short-yardage and end-zone situations (he sucked in 2009 so in 2010 they had Marion Barber on goal line duty).

In that example Jason Garret might go with RBBC. My point is RBBC handcuff is less valuable than a different player that has upside.


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 Post subject: Re: Felix Jones
PostPosted: Fri 08.03.2012, 00:17 
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jnadke wrote:
DrunkLikeAChampion wrote:
but isn't another player with upside basically another players handcuff. why not grab your own handcuff.

The answer is it depends.

If you have Arian Foster, you absolutely grab Ben Tate. Because Ben Tate is also a 3-down back.

Felix Jones is not a 3-down back. He's Matt Forte lite. He can catch, he can be elusive at times, and he can pass-block. But he's useless in short-yardage and end-zone situations (he sucked in 2009 so in 2010 they had Marion Barber on goal line duty).

In that example Jason Garret might go with RBBC. My point is RBBC handcuff is less valuable than a different player that has upside.


Matt Forte is a 3-down back.

Everyone bags on Felix. I drafted him last year, so I was disappointed too.

But to say he's not a worthy handcuff is ridiculous (some poster here even IMOed that Tanner would be the handcuff).

Last year in the games Felix started (and including the game late in the season where DeMarco broke his ankle early), Felix averaged 12.7 ppg (PPR). It's not other-worldly, obviously, but if your starter misses a game or three, you could do a lot worse.

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Alshon, DePunk, Martavis, Wallace, Davante, Hogan, Moncrief, Latimer
Rivera
DET, KCC

Lost to INJ: Cruz, Cooks, McKinnon


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 Post subject: Re: Felix Jones
PostPosted: Fri 08.03.2012, 07:40 
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it is a dilemma with all the Rbbc and injuries. I think in the 7th round Starks vs tate depends on if I have foster or not. rather get the definitive starter then a potential one. also if no solid 2nd rb then Starks is the better choice.

besides Tate and gerhart I don't feel any of the other handciffs are worth a reach.


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 Post subject: Re: Felix Jones
PostPosted: Fri 08.03.2012, 09:47 
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Because we have a short bench, I don't normally draft for a handcuff. If the value is there, i.e. Felix, or any other available player, then I will becuase of the value. I agree with the above comment of drafting a starting RB, say Starks, over a handcuff.

If I do draft a "handcuff", Gerhart, its because the starter is having issues, AP, and is the clear starter, not RBBC, when AP is down. That doesn't seem to be the case for Felix, with all the talk about Tanner. You don't hear that with Gerhart.

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*-starter
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RB: McCoy*; Charles*; Bradshaw; D. Martin*
WR: Cruz*; Julio*; Blackmon ; Cobb
TE: Pettigrew*
K: Janik*
DEF: Sea; Cin*
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 Post subject: Re: Felix Jones
PostPosted: Fri 08.03.2012, 12:06 
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TheNataliePortmans wrote:
But to say he's not a worthy handcuff is ridiculous (some poster here even IMOed that Tanner would be the handcuff).


I didn't mean to imply he's not a worthy handcuff. My implication is that his ceiling is many RB's floor. He hasn't scored more than 3TDs in his career. Heck, in 2010 he rushed 800 yards and only scored 1 TD.

Of course, he might be worth more in PPR leagues. My answer might be different in there.

That said, I'd rather draft a late-round starter with upside, like Kevin Smith or Donald Brown, than wasting a 9th-10th round pick handcuffing a limited guy like Felix Jones (because if you really want to handcuff, you have to pay a premium -- the handcuff "tax").

TheNataliePortmans wrote:
Matt Forte is a 3-down back.

I know Matt Forte is a 3-down back. He wouldn't be a 1st/2nd round pick if he wasn't. "Matt Forte lite" meant he does everything Matt Forte does but without the power running for short-yardage / goal line.


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 Post subject: Re: Felix Jones
PostPosted: Fri 08.03.2012, 12:25 
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jnadke wrote:
TheNataliePortmans wrote:
But to say he's not a worthy handcuff is ridiculous (some poster here even IMOed that Tanner would be the handcuff).


I didn't mean to imply he's not a worthy handcuff. My implication is that his ceiling is many RB's floor. He hasn't scored more than 3TDs in his career. Heck, in 2010 he rushed 800 yards and only scored 1 TD.

Of course, he might be worth more in PPR leagues. My answer might be different in there.

That said, I'd rather draft a late-round starter with upside, like Kevin Smith or Donald Brown, than wasting a 9th-10th round pick handcuffing a limited guy like Felix Jones (because if you really want to handcuff, you have to pay a premium -- the handcuff "tax").

TheNataliePortmans wrote:
Matt Forte is a 3-down back.

I know Matt Forte is a 3-down back. He wouldn't be a 1st/2nd round pick if he wasn't. "Matt Forte lite" meant he does everything Matt Forte does but without the power running for short-yardage / goal line.


OK, you make some good points there.

I too would rather have a starter than a handcuff. And I won't reach for a handcuff.

But if Felix is there at 9.11 or 10.02, I'll definitely grab him. There won't be a Brown or a Clerks or a Starks or even a Hillis or a Gerhart left at that point.

BTW, I only talk about PPR. It's all I've ever played. One of the reasons I left last year's sig down there.

I know standard leagues are supposedly still more popular, but for the life of me I can't understand why. The only plausible explanation is ignorance or tradition.

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Stafford
Hill, Latavius, Sims, Hyde, PT
Alshon, DePunk, Martavis, Wallace, Davante, Hogan, Moncrief, Latimer
Rivera
DET, KCC

Lost to INJ: Cruz, Cooks, McKinnon


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 Post subject: Re: Felix Jones
PostPosted: Fri 08.03.2012, 16:39 
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For all you Beanie haters out there - Demarco Murray was on the bench till Jones got hurt


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 Post subject: Re: Felix Jones
PostPosted: Fri 08.03.2012, 16:41 
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Fantasy 247 wrote:
For all you Beanie haters out there - Demarco Murray was on the bench till Jones got hurt


What does this have to do with Beanie?


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