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 Post subject: tied playoff games
PostPosted: Mon 11.28.2011, 13:08 
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What is the best way to decide who advances in a fantasy playoff game that ends in a tie?


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 Post subject: Re: tied playoff games
PostPosted: Mon 11.28.2011, 13:28 
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You won't get any concensus around here, but here are some of the ways I've seen it done:

1.) Higher seed automatically wins

2.) Total bench points

3.) Most TDs in starting lineup

4.) Designated players from bench assigned as "tie-breakers"

5.) Naked jello wrestling - only allowed in co-ed leagues

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 Post subject: Re: tied playoff games
PostPosted: Mon 11.28.2011, 13:52 
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one addition - use decimal scoring if you aren't already. If you don't like it in general, just calculate decimal scoring in the case of a tie which in effect will count the "unused" yardage of the starting lineup.


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 Post subject: Re: tied playoff games
PostPosted: Mon 11.28.2011, 16:00 
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We are already using decimal scoring.
I don't believe in using bench scoring. My bench generally is filled with handcuffs by the time the playoffs come around and I don't think it's a fair method of tie breaking.
Not crazy about the most TD thing either.
I lean toward the higher seeding, or possibly head-to-head between the teams during the season.
We had a tie a couple of years ago, between teams owned by two brothers, and they worked it out amicably. One brother was the higher seed, and would have won any of several tie breakers such as regular season record, total points scored, head-to-head, etc.
But I am interested in what people think is fair.

It's an all-male league, so I guess the jello wrestling idea is out. :)


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 Post subject: Re: tied playoff games
PostPosted: Mon 11.28.2011, 16:41 
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mj01 wrote:
But I am interested in what people think is fair.

As pwbowen said above, the question has been asked many times and there is no consensus on what is truly fair. there are pros and cons to any method you choose, so the best thing is to choose one that is agreeable for your league mates.

Personally, I think the highest seed or the head to head are the best options. I fully agree on bench scoring being a bad way to go based on what you should have on your bench at that time, and even designating an individual bench player leaves those with true handcuff players at a disadvantage.

Some other people choose a 'mini-team' from their full team and designate 1QB, 1RB, 1WR combo to compare to the opposing player's mini-team as a tie breaker. I've heard of this being designated before the game, or some who do it with the highest scoring of each position on the team when the game is over.

Again, any method suggested or used will have some good points and inherent flaws, so you have to accept that there is no perfect answer and just pick one that you agree will be used.


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 Post subject: Re: tied playoff games
PostPosted: Mon 11.28.2011, 18:42 
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mj01 wrote:
We are already using decimal scoring.
I don't believe in using bench scoring. My bench generally is filled with handcuffs by the time the playoffs come around and I don't think it's a fair method of tie breaking.
Not crazy about the most TD thing either.
I lean toward the higher seeding, or possibly head-to-head between the teams during the season.
We had a tie a couple of years ago, between teams owned by two brothers, and they worked it out amicably. One brother was the higher seed, and would have won any of several tie breakers such as regular season record, total points scored, head-to-head, etc.
But I am interested in what people think is fair.

It's an all-male league, so I guess the jello wrestling idea is out. :)


I don't think there's a great answer so I'd suggest making your league pick on the method. And you need to do this ASAP, not wait until the playoffs start. At that point, you'll have the teams with the strongest bench vote one way and the ones with the weakest bench vote another.

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 Post subject: Re: tied playoff games
PostPosted: Mon 11.28.2011, 20:52 
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like mentioned before, no consensus and nothing is perfect but I prefer the higher seed concept with the belief that they "earned it" by being the better team all year and the challenger has to "beat em" to steal it away and a tie is just a extremely close version of not beating them. Works for me anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: tied playoff games
PostPosted: Mon 11.28.2011, 21:41 
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Agent575 wrote:
like mentioned before, no consensus and nothing is perfect but I prefer the higher seed concept with the belief that they "earned it" by being the better team all year and the challenger has to "beat em" to steal it away and a tie is just a extremely close version of not beating them. Works for me anyway.


I do think it's a valid concept for playoff tiebreakers.

Any thoughts on the ESPN Home Field Advantage as a comparison?

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 Post subject: Re: tied playoff games
PostPosted: Tue 11.29.2011, 12:18 
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pwbowen wrote:
Agent575 wrote:
like mentioned before, no consensus and nothing is perfect but I prefer the higher seed concept with the belief that they "earned it" by being the better team all year and the challenger has to "beat em" to steal it away and a tie is just a extremely close version of not beating them. Works for me anyway.


I do think it's a valid concept for playoff tiebreakers.

Any thoughts on the ESPN Home Field Advantage as a comparison?


I don't play on ESPN so I am just assuming a few points are added for being home team.

I once considered this for a league I used to run...seemed like a fun idea...but then it really doesn't make sense and to each their own on that but more importantly, the reason that idea sucks is that it can create a tie that never would have occurred without it, so then you have not only that but a tiebreaker on top of it...UGH

Nothing is perfect. For simplicity, at this time I just think that during the regular season, the higher power ranking wins a tie and in the playoffs, the higher seed wins a tie. Challengers must DEFEAT em.

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 Post subject: Re: tied playoff games
PostPosted: Tue 11.29.2011, 21:13 
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Agent575 wrote:
pwbowen wrote:
Agent575 wrote:
like mentioned before, no consensus and nothing is perfect but I prefer the higher seed concept with the belief that they "earned it" by being the better team all year and the challenger has to "beat em" to steal it away and a tie is just a extremely close version of not beating them. Works for me anyway.


I do think it's a valid concept for playoff tiebreakers.

Any thoughts on the ESPN Home Field Advantage as a comparison?


I don't play on ESPN so I am just assuming a few points are added for being home team.

I once considered this for a league I used to run...seemed like a fun idea...but then it really doesn't make sense and to each their own on that but more importantly, the reason that idea sucks is that it can create a tie that never would have occurred without it, so then you have not only that but a tiebreaker on top of it...UGH

Nothing is perfect. For simplicity, at this time I just think that during the regular season, the higher power ranking wins a tie and in the playoffs, the higher seed wins a tie. Challengers must DEFEAT em.


You don't allow ties in the regular season?

How's a lower seed a challenger? That's an interesting viewpoint.

I reward teams for regular season performances with $$$ awards. JMO but this and a higher seed allowing them to play the lower rated team seems enough to me.

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 Post subject: Re: tied playoff games
PostPosted: Thu 12.01.2011, 13:25 
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Like I said, I don't think there is an answer to these questions that is argument-proof but IMO the seeding is based on who had a better year so if there is a tie in the playoffs, then the team with the better season should continue on vs the lesser team that maybe got lucky to be in the playoffs to begin with let alone be standing neck and neck with the better team...to continue, they MUST WIN! Thats me.

My old league did have regular season ties...the league that I am starting in 2012 will not which is a choice that I am completely fine with considering the likelihood of it ever happening anyway is extremely small. I could just as easily allow the tie but either way is fine IMO.

My league has quite a few payouts for various things also but again when it comes to the very unlikely event of a tie in playoffs, I think the team that had the better season is the one that would deserve to continue on vs some other tiebreaker method which may only serve to facilitate the lesser team squeaking by on what IMO would look like a technicality.

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 Post subject: Re: tied playoff games
PostPosted: Wed 12.07.2011, 13:55 
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I think the "higher seed" idea blows. It doesn't resolve anything about the game in question.

I understand why you might not want to use the bench points idea, but it becomes a tradeoff between handcuffs and bench strength. Another alternative is to designate just one bench player as a "tiebreaker" who is used to break the tie with his own score.

If you don't like either bench idea, then consider going by total points scored, and/or total yards gained (depending on your scoring system) by the starters. That solves your bench problem, and still resolves the game based on how the lineups actually performed.


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 Post subject: Re: tied playoff games
PostPosted: Wed 12.07.2011, 20:00 
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Warhaft wrote:
I think the "higher seed" idea blows. It doesn't resolve anything about the game in question.

Yes it does; it resolves the tie.


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 Post subject: Re: tied playoff games
PostPosted: Fri 12.09.2011, 08:41 
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FutBol wrote:
Warhaft wrote:
I think the "higher seed" idea blows. It doesn't resolve anything about the game in question.

Yes it does; it resolves the tie.


I disagree. It decides a winner based on something that has nothing to do with the lineups, rosters, or player performances during the week in question. That is the opposite of what fantasy football is normally about, in my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: tied playoff games
PostPosted: Fri 12.09.2011, 14:34 
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Warhaft wrote:
FutBol wrote:
Warhaft wrote:
I think the "higher seed" idea blows. It doesn't resolve anything about the game in question.

Yes it does; it resolves the tie.


I disagree. It decides a winner based on something that has nothing to do with the lineups, rosters, or player performances during the week in question. That is the opposite of what fantasy football is normally about, in my opinion.


So your argument isn't that it resolves nothing, because the tie breaker's intent is to resolve the tie, and that's exactly what it does. Your argument is that it does not resolve the tie in the game by using statistics only from that individual game.

My question is why do you feel it is better to resolve a tie by "double dipping" into stats or other information from an individual game? You don't like the idea of using the seeding, whch is a culmination of the entire season that puts one team above another, but you do like using something that is related to just the individual week.

The suggestions you made are to use bench, or an individual bench player. There is a reason those players are on the bench - it's because you did not want them in your starting lineup. I don't see how a player you chose not to start is more valid for what his points would have been that week if he did start.

Another idea you posted was to use total points scored and/or total yards gained. Isn't that already what the points came from that created the tie? This is what I meant by "double dipping" above. You are using the same stats that created the tie to try to break the tie. If you ignore yardage and go back to just points scored (not sure if this is what you meant) then you are saying one part of your scoring system is more important than another part.

As we said early in the thread, there is no right or wrong answer - it's all a matter of personal preference and what works for your league. I'm just curious about the thought process on these tie breakers as I personally see them as less relevant. At the same time, I can understand someone not liking the seeding idea because it automatically gives one team the tie breaker before the game starts. While it isn't perfect, I live with that idea as one that was earned through the season.


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