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checo446
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PostPosted: Wed 12.12.2007, 12:11 
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jdferguson07 wrote:
checo446 wrote:
jdferguson07 wrote:
checo446 wrote:
I think Falcons fans will likely be getting some fresh blood at coach and that it will be atleast 2010 before there is much hope for them to compete in the league for their division.


Well, considering the fact that our division is one of the worst in the league, I don't think it will be as difficult as you say.

If we bring in a guy like McNabb or DA and solidify the line, 6 wins isn't out of the question.


That is a much bigger task in getting one of those guys than you will be willing to admit. I think this is a 3 year rebuilding project. Your team has too many holes where you could use an upgrade at almost every position on the field. I still think Tampa and New Orleans are going to own your division for atleast the next two years. Also, I think Carolina will be better next year provided they fire Fox as their talent is clearly underperforming. All that said, I don't see you guys winning more than 5-6 games which will guarantee you a top 12 pick in those years for the next two years.


Almost every position on the field? :roll: No


Go through your roster and detail out which positions on the field you feel like you have covered where you don't need an upgrade or significant help with depth.
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jdferguson07
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PostPosted: Wed 12.12.2007, 12:12 
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checo446 wrote:
jdferguson07 wrote:
checo446 wrote:
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I honestly don't think Vick would have been a good fit for Petrino's spread offense. The West Coast (play fakes and quick hitting passes) was the only type of offense that Vick could have succeeded in.

A complete overhaul is exactly what this team needs. I am just glad we won't be wasting our first pick on Brohm anymore.

Hopefully we can bring in a defensive minded, run first coach and start winning some games next year.


Didn't Vick have a lot of succeed in Reeves more traditional offense which wasn't West Coast? I thought he was actually less effective than in his early years when they tried to convert Vick to more of a pocket passing, West Coast QB under Mora.


He might have been less effective, but the offense was better under Mora. The running game was the best in the league for a few years because of the threat of Vick rolling out on the boot. So yes, his passing might not have been as good, but as long as the offense is moving the ball, then Vick is effective.


Actually though, the numbers don't agree with what you are saying.

In 2003, the only year Vick was under Dan Reeves. The Atlanta offense combined for 5,752 yards and 41 touchdowns.

In the three years under Mora in 2004, 2005, and 2006; the offensive totals for the entire offense were less than under Reeves with Vick in a traditional offense:

2004: 5,363 yards and 36 TDs
2005: 5,453 yards and 36 TDs
2006: 5,621 yards and 30 TDs.

Based on the above, I don't think what you are saying is supported as Vick being more suited to run the offense in a West Coast system.


I stand corrected Lombardi.
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ATL Souljah Boy
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PostPosted: Wed 12.12.2007, 12:13 
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checo446 wrote:
jdferguson07 wrote:
checo446 wrote:
jdferguson07 wrote:
I honestly don't think Vick would have been a good fit for Petrino's spread offense. The West Coast (play fakes and quick hitting passes) was the only type of offense that Vick could have succeeded in.

A complete overhaul is exactly what this team needs. I am just glad we won't be wasting our first pick on Brohm anymore.

Hopefully we can bring in a defensive minded, run first coach and start winning some games next year.


Didn't Vick have a lot of succeed in Reeves more traditional offense which wasn't West Coast? I thought he was actually less effective than in his early years when they tried to convert Vick to more of a pocket passing, West Coast QB under Mora.


He might have been less effective, but the offense was better under Mora. The running game was the best in the league for a few years because of the threat of Vick rolling out on the boot. So yes, his passing might not have been as good, but as long as the offense is moving the ball, then Vick is effective.


Actually though, the numbers don't agree with what you are saying.

In 2003, the only year Vick was under Dan Reeves. The Atlanta offense combined for 5,752 yards and 41 touchdowns.

In the three years under Mora in 2004, 2005, and 2006; the offensive totals for the entire offense were less than under Reeves with Vick in a traditional offense:

2004: 5,363 yards and 36 TDs
2005: 5,453 yards and 36 TDs
2006: 5,621 yards and 30 TDs.

Based on the above, I don't think what you are saying is supported as Vick being more suited to run the offense in a West Coast system.


:? Vick played like 5 games in 2003? In 2002 though he posted a career high in QB rating and yards passed for in a season.

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HurricaneNamedDitka
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ATL Souljah Boy wrote:
HurricaneNamedDitka wrote:
you falcon fans are hilarous...


We live to make you laugh Ditka. Gives a Bills fan like yourself purpose.


yawn

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jdferguson07
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PostPosted: Wed 12.12.2007, 12:14 
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HurricaneNamedDitka wrote:
ATL Souljah Boy wrote:
HurricaneNamedDitka wrote:
you falcon fans are hilarous...


We live to make you laugh Ditka. Gives a Bills fan like yourself purpose.


yawn


I don't get it.. Are you trying to contribute or post whore?
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checo446
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PostPosted: Wed 12.12.2007, 12:17 
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ATL Souljah Boy wrote:
checo446 wrote:
jdferguson07 wrote:
checo446 wrote:
jdferguson07 wrote:
I honestly don't think Vick would have been a good fit for Petrino's spread offense. The West Coast (play fakes and quick hitting passes) was the only type of offense that Vick could have succeeded in.

A complete overhaul is exactly what this team needs. I am just glad we won't be wasting our first pick on Brohm anymore.

Hopefully we can bring in a defensive minded, run first coach and start winning some games next year.


Didn't Vick have a lot of succeed in Reeves more traditional offense which wasn't West Coast? I thought he was actually less effective than in his early years when they tried to convert Vick to more of a pocket passing, West Coast QB under Mora.


He might have been less effective, but the offense was better under Mora. The running game was the best in the league for a few years because of the threat of Vick rolling out on the boot. So yes, his passing might not have been as good, but as long as the offense is moving the ball, then Vick is effective.


Actually though, the numbers don't agree with what you are saying.

In 2003, the only year Vick was under Dan Reeves. The Atlanta offense combined for 5,752 yards and 41 touchdowns.

In the three years under Mora in 2004, 2005, and 2006; the offensive totals for the entire offense were less than under Reeves with Vick in a traditional offense:

2004: 5,363 yards and 36 TDs
2005: 5,453 yards and 36 TDs
2006: 5,621 yards and 30 TDs.

Based on the above, I don't think what you are saying is supported as Vick being more suited to run the offense in a West Coast system.


:? Vick played like 5 games in 2003? In 2002 though he posted a career high in QB rating and yards passed for in a season.


That would be a typo, 2003 should be 2002. Thanks for the correction but it still doesn't change the point I was trying to make.
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Blzbba
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jdferguson07 wrote:
HurricaneNamedDitka wrote:
ATL Souljah Boy wrote:
HurricaneNamedDitka wrote:
you falcon fans are hilarous...


We live to make you laugh Ditka. Gives a Bills fan like yourself purpose.


yawn


I don't get it.. Are you trying to contribute or post whore?



He's getting amusement out of one of the few franchises more woeful than Buffalo.


Personally, I think the entire ATL franchise deserves a makeover. I'd like to package Brooking, Crumpler, D-Hall and a few others for some draft picks. Hell, I'd ditch the dumb black uniforms and the whole "hip-hop Vick-thug" feel the franchise has and do something different.

A tubgirl-like enema is what the Falcons need. Their loser franchise QB is gone, the quitting loser known as Petrino is gone.

Don't stop yet, Blank! Sweep ALL the trash out.

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ATL Souljah Boy
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PostPosted: Wed 12.12.2007, 12:22 
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Checo I do agree we need more depth in general, but you can say that for a lot of teams in the NFL.

We are on the rather young on the defensive side of the ball and have a lot more upside than people think. We do need a guy that is capable of stopping the run up front because we have people capable of getting to the QB. DeAngelo needs a CB to compliment him. LB needs depth. RB we're fine. WR we need a guy who is capable of stretching the field, but I like what I've seen from Robinson. Offensive line isn't that horrible, but has had injury problems this season. A few upgrades there would be sufficient. Lawyer Milloy is past his prime.

O yea a QB wouldn't hurt :D McNafro for 2008! The pipe dream is born!

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vonbearsalot
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PostPosted: Wed 12.12.2007, 12:25 
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jdferguson07 wrote:
Stankweasels 3000 wrote:
DeAngelo Hall was notorious for questioning every move, getting in the coaches' faces after he blew the Carolina game, mouthing off to the press about Petrino all season long.


How could you blame him?

Obviously Petrino is a spineless idiot. But since you watched 1 Falcons game this season I guess you are the expert. :roll:


I can absolutely blame him. Was Petrino a great coach? We'll never really know, because the team basically shot him in the foot then told him to go run a marathon.

It's like trying to assess Beck after the MNF swamp-game. Just impossible to see what he's really like beyond all the muck.

But, the team took a huge hit and needed to rally together to have any hope. For that to happen, the vets needed to back up the coach and keep the team together.

A splintered team isn't ever going to win in the NFL. (see: PHI Eagles, re: TO and McNabb) It's too important for the team to work together, to gain momentum off each other, to be a unit. If you constantly undermine a coach, whether he's good or bad, the season's going to go south quickly. No coach, no matter who he is, can coach in those conditions, and (1) he was way over his head anyway (the NFL is not college; college he could sweep things under the rug at least, and keep players on his side by bailing them out of bad situations), and (2) at some point the players had to take some initiative and say, hey, our best chance is to buy into what's happening here and do out best.

I didn't see them do that, instead, I saw them collapse into a team of arrogant loud mouths who pigeon-holed their own season.

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HurricaneNamedDitka
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PostPosted: Wed 12.12.2007, 12:26 
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jdferguson07 wrote:
HurricaneNamedDitka wrote:
ATL Souljah Boy wrote:
HurricaneNamedDitka wrote:
you falcon fans are hilarous...


We live to make you laugh Ditka. Gives a Bills fan like yourself purpose.


yawn


I don't get it..


that seems to be the norm

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jdferguson07
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PostPosted: Wed 12.12.2007, 12:28 
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Falcons needs

QB: Obviously this is our most pressing issue
RB: Dunn is aging. Someone to compliment Norwood is needed
WR: Roddy (deep threat), Jenkins (possession guy), Robinson definitely has a bright future ahead of him
TE: Crumpler and Martrez Milner were not utilized enough- no upgrade necessary
OL: Almost every team in the NFL is looking for more help up front

CB: Someone to compliment DHall.. Is Houston that guy?
FS: Jimmy Williams needs to live up to his hype
SS: Milloy is past his prime and we could use someone here
LB: Boley and Brooking are great players
DL: We have good pass rushing guys, we need a stud run stopper

Biggest needs: QB, OL, DT
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vonbearsalot
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ATL Souljah Boy wrote:
Checo I do agree we need more depth in general, but you can say that for a lot of teams in the NFL.

We are on the rather young on the defensive side of the ball and have a lot more upside than people think. We do need a guy that is capable of stopping the run up front because we have people capable of getting to the QB. DeAngelo needs a CB to compliment him. LB needs depth. RB we're fine. WR we need a guy who is capable of stretching the field, but I like what I've seen from Robinson. Offensive line isn't that horrible, but has had injury problems this season. A few upgrades there would be sufficient. Lawyer Milloy is past his prime.

O yea a QB wouldn't hurt :D McNafro for 2008! The pipe dream is born!


Isn't D Hall gone after this season? Wasn't he seen mouthing to Sean Payton that he'd play for the league minimum if they could get him out of Atlanta? I feel like I read that somewhere, though it could have been PFT, so might not be dependable...

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ATL Souljah Boy
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vonbearsalot wrote:
jdferguson07 wrote:
Stankweasels 3000 wrote:
DeAngelo Hall was notorious for questioning every move, getting in the coaches' faces after he blew the Carolina game, mouthing off to the press about Petrino all season long.


How could you blame him?

Obviously Petrino is a spineless idiot. But since you watched 1 Falcons game this season I guess you are the expert. :roll:


I can absolutely blame him. Was Petrino a great coach? We'll never really know, because the team basically shot him in the foot then told him to go run a marathon.

It's like trying to assess Beck after the MNF swamp-game. Just impossible to see what he's really like beyond all the muck.

But, the team took a huge hit and needed to rally together to have any hope. For that to happen, the vets needed to back up the coach and keep the team together.

A splintered team isn't ever going to win in the NFL. (see: PHI Eagles, re: TO and McNabb) It's too important for the team to work together, to gain momentum off each other, to be a unit. If you constantly undermine a coach, whether he's good or bad, the season's going to go south quickly. No coach, no matter who he is, can coach in those conditions, and (1) he was way over his head anyway (the NFL is not college; college he could sweep things under the rug at least, and keep players on his side by bailing them out of bad situations), and (2) at some point the players had to take some initiative and say, hey, our best chance is to buy into what's happening here and do out best.

I didn't see them do that, instead, I saw them collapse into a team of arrogant loud mouths who pigeon-holed their own season.


If the Head coach doesn't even communicate with his players though how do you expect them to actually be a team? It's hard to put a finger on it either way. Falcons fans and NFL fans knew this was going to be a tough year for ATL. It isn't like this kind of season wasn't expected.

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tmidgley
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vonbearsalot wrote:
jdferguson07 wrote:
Stankweasels 3000 wrote:
DeAngelo Hall was notorious for questioning every move, getting in the coaches' faces after he blew the Carolina game, mouthing off to the press about Petrino all season long.


How could you blame him?

Obviously Petrino is a spineless idiot. But since you watched 1 Falcons game this season I guess you are the expert. :roll:


I can absolutely blame him. Was Petrino a great coach? We'll never really know, because the team basically shot him in the foot then told him to go run a marathon.
It's like trying to assess Beck after the MNF swamp-game. Just impossible to see what he's really like beyond all the muck.

But, the team took a huge hit and needed to rally together to have any hope. For that to happen, the vets needed to back up the coach and keep the team together.

A splintered team isn't ever going to win in the NFL. (see: PHI Eagles, re: TO and McNabb) It's too important for the team to work together, to gain momentum off each other, to be a unit. If you constantly undermine a coach, whether he's good or bad, the season's going to go south quickly. No coach, no matter who he is, can coach in those conditions, and (1) he was way over his head anyway (the NFL is not college; college he could sweep things under the rug at least, and keep players on his side by bailing them out of bad situations), and (2) at some point the players had to take some initiative and say, hey, our best chance is to buy into what's happening here and do out best.

I didn't see them do that, instead, I saw them collapse into a team of arrogant loud mouths who pigeon-holed their own season.


This is professional football team, making excuses about the players you have and the hand your delt is for girly ball... Worse the being a loser is losing your respect... Petrino has now accomplished both on a professional level in only 13 games... that has to be some kind of record.

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ATL Souljah Boy
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PostPosted: Wed 12.12.2007, 12:32 
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vonbearsalot wrote:
ATL Souljah Boy wrote:
Checo I do agree we need more depth in general, but you can say that for a lot of teams in the NFL.

We are on the rather young on the defensive side of the ball and have a lot more upside than people think. We do need a guy that is capable of stopping the run up front because we have people capable of getting to the QB. DeAngelo needs a CB to compliment him. LB needs depth. RB we're fine. WR we need a guy who is capable of stretching the field, but I like what I've seen from Robinson. Offensive line isn't that horrible, but has had injury problems this season. A few upgrades there would be sufficient. Lawyer Milloy is past his prime.

O yea a QB wouldn't hurt :D McNafro for 2008! The pipe dream is born!


Isn't D Hall gone after this season? Wasn't he seen mouthing to Sean Payton that he'd play for the league minimum if they could get him out of Atlanta? I feel like I read that somewhere, though it could have been PFT, so might not be dependable...


It sounds more than anything Hall is intent on staying in ATL. Could be totally wrong but with Petrino out I think Hall wouldn't mind staying. If we trade the guy we could definitely get some value out of him, but it would make us extremely thing at corner.

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