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 Post subject: Re: The Lebron Show
PostPosted: Fri 07.09.2010, 10:05 
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TaZZ wrote:
I keep hearing how Chicago is a better spot for him to go to win.

How?

Wade > Rose, Bosh > Boozer.

Sure, you won't have Noah on Miami, but you gotta think some pretty decent players will take a pay cut to play for Miami.


Team sport. Chicago has the better team plain and simple. Better balance, better defense, and now that Lebron isn't going to CHI town the Bulls still aren't done in free agency. They will be looking to add a sharp shooter to their team. My guess Kyle Korver. Miami's make up right now is a bunch of jump shooters who play on the outside. Chicago's is an inside out game with a strong influence of solid defense. The same kind of style that just won the Lakers a championship. The Heat just got Mike Miller which is a good signing, but again another shooter.

Orlando >>> Bulls >>> Heat right now.

And just for the record you are way off base with Bosh >>> Boozer. Boozer is the better player. Shoots a better %, runs the pick and roll better, rebounds better, and is more versatile overall than Bosh. Chris is a good player but he has never even been in a playoff series much less competed in pressure situations. Carlos has and that is another advantage to him. The media hyped up Bosh as the better signing than Boozer but they are 100% wrong. True basketball fans know Booz is the better player.


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 Post subject: Re: The Lebron Show
PostPosted: Fri 07.09.2010, 10:17 
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TaZZ wrote:
I keep hearing how Chicago is a better spot for him to go to win.

How?

Wade > Rose, Bosh > Boozer.

Sure, you won't have Noah on Miami, but you gotta think some pretty decent players will take a pay cut to play for Miami.


thats a poor comparison, wade is the 2 and mario chalmers is the PG. is mario chalmers better than derrick rose? no.

and i'll take luol deng over the 4th member of the miami gayness, mike miller, any day of the week. miami is going to have 3 stars surrounded by scrubs, while in chicago he could have been on an actual TEAM.

and as much as i hate carlos boozer, and everyone else from duke, chris "lapdog" (stan van gundy you are hilarious) bosh isnt that much better than boozer. he was a big fish in a very small pond, and couldnt lead the raptors to anything but empty seats and indifference.

regardless, even if miami can come out of the east, they cannot match up with the lakers, and would be crushed by them. bosh cant hold pau gasols jock, and will be physically dominated by a healthy andrew bynum.

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 Post subject: Re: The Lebron Show
PostPosted: Fri 07.09.2010, 10:26 
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SJSwarm wrote:
TaZZ wrote:
I keep hearing how Chicago is a better spot for him to go to win.

How?

Wade > Rose, Bosh > Boozer.

Sure, you won't have Noah on Miami, but you gotta think some pretty decent players will take a pay cut to play for Miami.


thats a poor comparison, wade is the 2 and mario chalmers is the PG. is mario chalmers better than derrick rose? no.

and i'll take luol deng over the 4th member of the miami gayness, mike miller, any day of the week. miami is going to have 3 stars surrounded by scrubs, while in chicago he could have been on an actual TEAM.

and as much as i hate carlos boozer, and everyone else from duke, chris "lapdog" (stan van gundy you are hilarious) bosh isnt that much better than boozer. he was a big fish in a very small pond, and couldnt lead the raptors to anything but empty seats and indifference.

regardless, even if miami can come out of the east, they cannot match up with the lakers, and would be crushed by them. bosh cant hold pau gasols jock, and will be physically dominated by a healthy andrew bynum.


I still like Mike Miller as a player. He is the best white guy in the league and does everything well. Always gets overlooked because he has never been on a good team, but he is injury prone. It will be interesting to see how Miami's draft picks work out. All 3 were 2nd rounders but I'd be surprised if they didn't make the team.

Da'sean Butler from West VA would have been first if he didn't tear his ACL in the tournament.
Jarvis Varnado beast shot blocker from Miss St.
Dexter Pittman could possibly be their C from good ol Texas. Even though that fatty needs to lose a few LBS.

Outside of the big 3 though the Heat are definitely going to be relying on some young, unproven talent that wouldn't make a lot of other NBA teams. That and old beaten down scraps that no one else wants anything to do with.


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 Post subject: Re: The Lebron Show
PostPosted: Fri 07.09.2010, 10:37 
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Before yesterday's announcement, I thought this was LBJ's options:

1. CHI/NY
2. NYJ
3. CLE

IMO, Chicago was originally the clear-cut favorite from the jump for a number of reasons. He would be the unquestioned #1 on the team. It was his childhood team. A huge Jordan fan (he was actually reportedly seen house-hunting with MJ in CHI). The one thing that blew it all to hell: Boozer. If that dude never spurned the Cavs (and LBJ) back in LBJ's rookie year, there would have been a better chance that LBJ would have ended up a Bull. I really think LeBron truly doesn't like the guy.

I thought the Heat had about a 10% chance of signing LBJ after Wade/Bosh announced they were heading to South Beach. Actually, it was that moment that I thought there was a chance LBJ might be staying put in CLE...but the one thing that trumped that idea: the fact he was waiting until his kid's B-Ball camp was over in Ohio. No way was he going to announce his exit before having to work with those kids.

...which finally brought the Knicks/Nets into the picture. After Wade/Bosh announced, and Boozer signed in CHI...I thought to myself: I think this dude might actually go to the Big Apple. But in the end, looks like we were all fooled.

...and I agree with Tazz: the rest of that roster will not be full of 'scrubs'. Seasoned vets who want a shot at a ring will take the league minimum to do it. Remember Payton/Malone trying to join Shaq/Kobe in LA? Granted, it didn't work out for them, but they did get to the Finals and at least had a shot at winning one.

...and Gilbert is just the type of hypocrite/whiner that the majority of Cleveland folks are going through right now. Calling Lebron "cursed" and saying he'll take his curse with him to Miami? Hey Gilbert, if this guy is so fuggin' cursed and a cancer to teams, then why did you try to resign him and build your franchise around him? Your butthurt arse (and the rest of Cleveland's butthurt arses) would be singing a different tune if LBJ decided to stay. ("What a true man that is right there...staying loyal. Kids nowadays could learn alot from LBJ and how to become a man among men...blah blah blah")

Get a life, ya douche.


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 Post subject: Re: The Lebron Show
PostPosted: Fri 07.09.2010, 10:49 
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SJSwarm wrote:
and as much as i hate carlos boozer, and everyone else from duke, chris "lapdog" (stan van gundy you are hilarious) bosh isnt that much better than boozer. he was a big fish in a very small pond, and couldnt lead the raptors to anything but empty seats and indifference.

regardless, even if miami can come out of the east, they cannot match up with the lakers, and would be crushed by them. bosh cant hold pau gasols jock, and will be physically dominated by a healthy andrew bynum.


I gotta disagree. Yes, Boozer is a more physical post-player than Bosh, but Bosh still commands a double-team on the blocks. And we already know LBJ and Wade command DT's everywhere else on the floor...

...and you're not allowed to use the words "healthy" and "bynum" in the same sentence, b/c it will never happen ;)


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 Post subject: Re: The Lebron Show
PostPosted: Fri 07.09.2010, 11:07 
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lol @ the NBA being a team sport.

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 Post subject: Re: The Lebron Show
PostPosted: Fri 07.09.2010, 11:22 
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TaZZ wrote:
lol @ the NBA being a team sport.


For someone who doesn't care about the NBA how in the frig would you know?


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 Post subject: Re: The Lebron Show
PostPosted: Fri 07.09.2010, 12:01 
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ATL Souljah Boy wrote:
TaZZ wrote:
lol @ the NBA being a team sport.


For someone who doesn't care about the NBA how in the frig would you know?


The reason I don't care about the NBA is because it's not a team sport, that's how I know.

NCAA is much more of a team game than the NBA will ever be until David Stern is replaced with someone who actually wants to improve the game.

NBA teams can excel with one superstar because it's a superstar game... 3 superstars, it's game over.

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 Post subject: Re: The Lebron Show
PostPosted: Fri 07.09.2010, 12:03 
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TaZZ wrote:
I keep hearing how Chicago is a better spot for him to go to win.

How?

Wade > Rose, Bosh > Boozer.

Sure, you won't have Noah on Miami, but you gotta think some pretty decent players will take a pay cut to play for Miami.


lolwut? Who's gonna play for the league minimum? Miami doesn't have a whole heckuvalot of options. And let's not talk about anyone they drafted. They'd be lucky to make the team in any other situation.

Boozer is Bosh's equal, and a better inside presence/rebounder. Rose gives Lebron something Wade doesnt - alpha dog status. He simply can never, ever be associated with Kobe, MJ, or even Wade himself anymore. Rose is a potential, TRUE hall of fame point guard at just 21 yrs old. They have Noah and Deng. They have room to sign a sharpshooter. It's the perfect fit that would allow him to be the legend he strived for. Sacrificing money my arse - he sacrificed so much of this "brand" he yapped about during the whole process to play with some Team USA buddies.

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 Post subject: Re: The Lebron Show
PostPosted: Fri 07.09.2010, 13:06 
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Fighting Amish wrote:
@Oar..the topic of his free agency was discussed here in such detail because it was a news item. A big time player threatening to leave..blah blah. That hardly equates to this being a basketball town. You ask those same people about the cavs roster and they could only name 4 players..including LeEgo. Nobody would argue the point that it's a Football>baseball> and basketball town.

This town hasn't been with the baseball team since shortly after the Dolan's took over (about the same time we drafted LeBron iirc), when an owner with $ takes them over again it may change again but until then it'll be basketball > baseball...because the baseball team will continue to be a losing one until there's a regime change.

Football will always come first, regardless of how miserable they are, but I think you're waaaay off base on how the town feels about basketball and baseball. They're setting record lows with remarkable consistency...and for good reason.

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 Post subject: Re: The Lebron Show
PostPosted: Fri 07.09.2010, 13:22 
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FantasyHussy wrote:
He simply can never, ever be associated with Kobe, MJ, or even Wade himself anymore.


c'mon bro...seriously? is everyone forgetting that all of these so-called "GOATs" couldn't get it done w/out a sidekick(s)?

Kobe needed Shaq...and then proved he couldn't get it done until Gasol arrived. Hell, Shaq was the 3-time Finals MVP last I checked...and Kobe was 2nd fiddle during those years. Sure, Kobe has evolved into the best closer in the game right now, and is easily 1st fiddle with LAL right now, but it doesn't change the fact he couldn't win it all until Gasol was acquired.

Wade also needed Shaq to get a ring. Anyone in their right mind that knows basketball can easily argue that Wade was top dog during their championship run...hell, I agree. But he still needed Shaq. You could say that Shaq needed Wade to get a 4th ring more than Wade needed Shaq to get his 1st. I'll agree with that.

Jordan is most likely to be argued as the exception to the rule. 6 rings. 6 finals MVPs. unquestioned best player in the game. etc. etc. etc. But he still played alongside arguably the greatest "wingman" in history. Pippen was an all-world defender, rebounder, and team player. He did everything asked of a guy who was not "the man" on his own team...and did it well above average. Even when Jordan retired for two years, Pippen was still an all-star. As far as Jordan being called "clutch"...I'm not gonna argue that one bit. Anyone can call upon some of his most memorable game-winners in postseason play (vs. Ehlo and the Cavs, vs. Byron Russell and the Jazz, etc)...but nobody mentions how his teammates have done the same thing for him in crunch time. John Paxson sank a game-winner that CLINCHED THE 93 FINALS. Had he missed that shot, the Bulls would've been playing a game 7 on the road, and MJ may only have 5 rings. Steve Kerr sank a game-winner in Game 6 of the 97 Finals that did the same thing. @ Vickfan: these are examples of coaching down the stretch, not "pass to LBJ and get out of the way"...

Has Lebron EVER had this kind of support? How about an emphatic HELL NO! Only two other players he's ever played with his entire career has made an All-Star team, (Z in '03, Mo in '09) and one took a coach's vote to get him on the squad (Mo last year...who, ironically, replaced an injured Bosh...lol). I'm not saying LBJ is a saint...I'm not saying he belongs in the same "GOAT-talks" as MJ, Bird, Magic...I'm saying that the Cavaliers shortcomings the past few years had less to do with what LBJ didn't do vs. what his teammates didn't do. The Cavs never won a title b/c they have been beat by better teams. Period. And judging from LBJ's overall stat line in the playoffs, I'd say the finger-pointing should shift elsewhere. Blame management for not making any moves during any of the trade deadlines. Blame Mike Brown for riding his best player as far as one man can take you and not being creative enough to know how to get more production out of his other talent on the squad: A.Jamison = choke. 20ppg in reg season...11ppg in playoffs...only one double-digit scoring game against BOS in semis.

Lebron's only 25. And he will have rings. yes, rings...as in plural. People are saying he's gonna be 2nd fiddle to Wade? I doubt it. Not saying it's not possible, but I doubt it.

And for the record, Miami is the last place I wanted to see him go. Chicago was definitely the best fit.


/2nd rant over


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 Post subject: Re: The Lebron Show
PostPosted: Fri 07.09.2010, 13:40 
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Sums it up perfectly

"In May, after the Cavs were ousted in the conference semifinals, I wrote that LeBron was facing one of the greatest sports decisions ever: "winning (Chicago), loyalty (Cleveland) or a chance at immortality (New York)."

I never thought he would pick "HELP! (Miami)"" - Bill Simmons

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 Post subject: Re: The Lebron Show
PostPosted: Fri 07.09.2010, 13:49 
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endzoneview wrote:
Sums it up perfectly

"In May, after the Cavs were ousted in the conference semifinals, I wrote that LeBron was facing one of the greatest sports decisions ever: "winning (Chicago), loyalty (Cleveland) or a chance at immortality (New York)."

I never thought he would pick "HELP! (Miami)"" - Bill Simmons



I don't really agree with Simmons in that regard.

I think that it is a lifestyle choice just as much as it is the easy way out. He got tired of being the only guy, the only reason the team won. Name a big game they won despite Lebron?

Having a supporting cast was important, so that limits his choices to Chicago and Miami. In Miami, you have Bosh and Wade, two of his friends who he has wanted to play with for a long time. In Chicago, he has Rose and Boozer... and I see Boozer as the dealbreaker.

I swear, if he had stayed in Cleveland, we wouldn't be having any of this discussion right now. They would have had a ring, maybe two, as he would have put them over the top against strong teams that they lost to, like the Spurs, Celtics and Magic.

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 Post subject: Re: The Lebron Show
PostPosted: Fri 07.09.2010, 13:54 
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Cyguy84 wrote:
endzoneview wrote:
Sums it up perfectly

"In May, after the Cavs were ousted in the conference semifinals, I wrote that LeBron was facing one of the greatest sports decisions ever: "winning (Chicago), loyalty (Cleveland) or a chance at immortality (New York)."

I never thought he would pick "HELP! (Miami)"" - Bill Simmons



I don't really agree with Simmons in that regard.

I think that it is a lifestyle choice just as much as it is the easy way out. He got tired of being the only guy, the only reason the team won. Name a big game they won despite Lebron?

Having a supporting cast was important, so that limits his choices to Chicago and Miami. In Miami, you have Bosh and Wade, two of his friends who he has wanted to play with for a long time. In Chicago, he has Rose and Boozer... and I see Boozer as the dealbreaker.

I swear, if he had stayed in Cleveland, we wouldn't be having any of this discussion right now. They would have had a ring, maybe two, as he would have put them over the top against strong teams that they lost to, like the Spurs, Celtics and Magic.


I disagree.

He could have teamed with Amare and next year they could have gotten Chris Paul or someone else. Players would be knocking down the door to come to NY to play with LeBron. It would have worked.

Chicago is ready now, that's well documented.

Going to Miami to join Wade's team and play with your buddy Bosh seems like overkill.

Do you think Jordan would have left Chicago and sign with Barkely and Karl Malone someplace to win a championship. Hell know. He wanted to do beat them there and beat them repeatedly in the championship games. That's what champions do. They never stop wanting to be the best. It's one thing to recognize you need help, but to stack the deck and form a "super team" seems like a lame way out to me.

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 Post subject: Re: The Lebron Show
PostPosted: Fri 07.09.2010, 13:57 
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JayP37 wrote:
And judging from LBJ's overall stat line in the playoffs, I'd say the finger-pointing should shift elsewhere. Blame management for not making any moves during any of the trade deadlines.

I don't disagree with a lot of what you wrote, but I think you're way off here. Ignore the stat line and watch the playoff games...then watch the regular season games. Different teams played those games - I don't know who's most at fault (if I had to guess I'd say Brown, #1) but LeBron's in the equation...especially this year.

The lack of front office moves has to be a typo, right? They made some poor ones early in his tenure and got shafted by Boozer but they never stopped making moves and even began to make 'all in' types of moves towards the end to try and get him a ring before his contract expired, they didn't get any rings but they must've done something right to become the winningiest team in the league 2 years in a row. I don't think the front office could have done much more to help him, at least not in the last few years since they made that deal to dump the dead weight Hughes to Chicago.

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