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unimsw wrote:Logic abounds in the Minnesota legislature! I think some are just trying to force the stadium to be in downtown because the businesses there have gotten all pissy that their business and property value will drop with the Vikings moving elsewhere. Guess what's going to happen on a much larger scale when they leave the state, you friggin' nut jobs! People don't want public funds to go to this project, but they don't realize how they benefit from having the Vikings around and how they will be hurt when they leave. So stupid. :F

I guess I better start deciding whether I'm going to be a Lions fan, Packers fan or Chiefs fan. :?


x2..on both.. :F
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birddog wrote:whats sickening about this whole ordeal.. I mean really sickening.. is that the Twins and Gophers have new stadiums (both played in the Dome previously) yet the Vikings have been lobbying for a new arena since Red McCombs was in town burning the ship to the ground.

Best idea I've come up with:
- Hire local non-unionized companies/contractors to do the work.
- Put their purchasing dollar to work and bend the arms of the material suppliers to lower the ridiculous margins on the entire project top to bottom. You could likely save roughly 1/4 the cost just in labor and an additional 'volume discount' on materials would easily reach into the millions just by sharpening their pencil.
- Tap the Indians for some help fercrisakes!!


they are certainly trying with the threat of a block e casino. I say screw extorting money from them open it and have a windfall of cash all dam life long. Minnesota already has 2 card clubs, Horse racing , Pull tabs , Lotto , 17..17..17 one seven Indian gaming casinos. OMG we cant expand gambling it will ruin the state. That 18th casino would just destroy us.

But the state run casino has been an idle threat for the last 7-8 years.
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Plechazunga wrote:
TheNewGuy wrote:
Socal wrote:Does LA really need another sports team whose team colors are purple and yellow??? :F


Kind of ironic (am I using that right? don't taze me if not) that the current purple and yellow team there moved from Minnesota as well.

History repeats itself? :-k


Yes. And it would duplicate the deracination that afflicts in the teams' names. The Lakers, because they once were from the land of a thousand lakes, and the Vikings, because they're from the land of a gazillion Scandinavian-Americans.


That would be 10,000 lakes. You got the gazillion Scandinavian-Americans part right.
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badgasman9 wrote:
birddog wrote:whats sickening about this whole ordeal.. I mean really sickening.. is that the Twins and Gophers have new stadiums (both played in the Dome previously) yet the Vikings have been lobbying for a new arena since Red McCombs was in town burning the ship to the ground.

Best idea I've come up with:
- Hire local non-unionized companies/contractors to do the work.
- Put their purchasing dollar to work and bend the arms of the material suppliers to lower the ridiculous margins on the entire project top to bottom. You could likely save roughly 1/4 the cost just in labor and an additional 'volume discount' on materials would easily reach into the millions just by sharpening their pencil.
- Tap the Indians for some help fercrisakes!!


they are certainly trying with the threat of a block e casino. I say screw extorting money from them open it and have a windfall of cash all dam life long. Minnesota already has 2 card clubs, Horse racing , Pull tabs , Lotto , 17..17..17 one seven Indian gaming casinos. OMG we cant expand gambling it will ruin the state. That 18th casino would just destroy us.

But the state run casino has been an idle threat for the last 7-8 years.
yea, go figure huh?!.. its total horse chit.
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mntenbears wrote:
Major Leaguer wrote:I have studied the economics behind subsidizing professional sports stadiums. It has been concluded that it is not advised for any city to contribute even a dime. It is simply not an economically sound decision for a city or state to make.

If you have ~20 minutes and are interested in this kind of thing, read this.

http://www.uwlax.edu/faculty/anderson/m ... adiums.pdf


Economically sound decisions for a city or state to make ? lol

How many other countless decisions have our city and state governments made that aren't sound ? Please don't use that as a platform to something you happen to oppose...



You are saying because they have made mistakes in the past they should continue down the path and make more poor economic decisions?

I am a long suffering Browns fan. The last thing I would wish upon a good fan base like the Vikings is to have your team ripped from you. It is awful. Studies have conclusively shown that it is not in the best interest of the people to spend public monies on stadiums.

There are also countless social concerns associated with the professional football culture. Gambling, binge drinking, and pollution are just a few of the biggies. Of course there are social benefits but when all of the issues are measured, the bad outweigh the good.

As a huge football fan it is hard to say this: states that do not allocate public money to professional sports teams are better off than the ones that do.
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Major Leaguer wrote:
mntenbears wrote:
Major Leaguer wrote:I have studied the economics behind subsidizing professional sports stadiums. It has been concluded that it is not advised for any city to contribute even a dime. It is simply not an economically sound decision for a city or state to make.

If you have ~20 minutes and are interested in this kind of thing, read this.

http://www.uwlax.edu/faculty/anderson/m ... adiums.pdf


Economically sound decisions for a city or state to make ? lol

How many other countless decisions have our city and state governments made that aren't sound ? Please don't use that as a platform to something you happen to oppose...



You are saying because they have made mistakes in the past they should continue down the path and make more poor economic decisions?

I am a long suffering Browns fan. The last thing I would wish upon a good fan base like the Vikings is to have your team ripped from you. It is awful. Studies have conclusively shown that it is not in the best interest of the people to spend public monies on stadiums.

There are also countless social concerns associated with the professional football culture. Gambling, binge drinking, and pollution are just a few of the biggies. Of course there are social benefits but when all of the issues are measured, the bad outweigh the good.

As a huge football fan it is hard to say this: states that do not allocate public money to professional sports teams are better off than the ones that do.


You make good points, but keep in mind that fans are emotional and they are likely to let those emotions trick them into believing that stealing $xxxxx from every man, woman and child in a certain tax jurisdiction is not morally repugnant.
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liberal organizations who oppose subsidies for billionaires come out with a study that public financing is a disaster wait to happebn as it destroys the community itself.

Pro subsidy then counters with how much it impact the quailty of life is a franchise leaves.

Truth is somewhere in the middle. The costs of fronting cash for the stadium makes zero sense. The cash out lay is tremendous. But towards the end of the stadium the cash benifits are a win win. There is a loss of jobs and lets not kid ourselves between community action groups dependent of organizations like the vikings can not replace the funding and exposure they bring. to the employees that are dependent on organizations like the vikings to provide there job. For the most part there is a wash unless the stadium also provides alternate sources of income generated that normally would not be generated with out such a stadium. IE SB, Final Four, Concerts, alternate sporting events, community events. this is where the states upside sits. With out target center the NHL would never had played expositional games while minnesota was with out a hockey franchise. Just in one game of brought in close to 250k - 300k in tax revenues with a attendance of 23,000.

there is a economic benifit to have stadium which can serve as multi purpose event holders. With out question if the vikings leave the dome will be torn down. With that so does any hope of host the NCAA which economic impact I am guessing would be in the range of 1.5 mill to 3
mill.

If the team and spectators pay for the stadium in the term or years of the lease. It is foolish to think that the jobs produced as well as the alternate tax revenues do not make a stadium profitable.

If they were a loss in revenue several states would be back out of the game becasue of affordibility issues. Places like Green Bay would never have a nfl franchise. Stadiums and profranchises are profitable to there hosting states.
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Ok geniuses, can we get a timeout for a little more Cuttles? Why have we gone two pages without that pic?
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OleCows wrote:
unimsw wrote:Logic abounds in the Minnesota legislature! I think some are just trying to force the stadium to be in downtown because the businesses there have gotten all pissy that their business and property value will drop with the Vikings moving elsewhere. Guess what's going to happen on a much larger scale when they leave the state, you friggin' nut jobs! People don't want public funds to go to this project, but they don't realize how they benefit from having the Vikings around and how they will be hurt when they leave. So stupid. :F

I guess I better start deciding whether I'm going to be a Lions fan, Packers fan or Chiefs fan. :?


x2..on both.. :F


I think yall are forgetting another option for yourselves. The weather is great in L.A....
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longhorn1rob wrote:
OleCows wrote:
unimsw wrote:Logic abounds in the Minnesota legislature! I think some are just trying to force the stadium to be in downtown because the businesses there have gotten all pissy that their business and property value will drop with the Vikings moving elsewhere. Guess what's going to happen on a much larger scale when they leave the state, you friggin' nut jobs! People don't want public funds to go to this project, but they don't realize how they benefit from having the Vikings around and how they will be hurt when they leave. So stupid. :F

I guess I better start deciding whether I'm going to be a Lions fan, Packers fan or Chiefs fan. :?


x2..on both.. :F


I think yall are forgetting another option for yourselves. The weather is great in L.A....


Don't forget an upgrade for the cheerleaders as well. :wink:
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Gill Posse wrote:
longhorn1rob wrote:
OleCows wrote:
unimsw wrote:Logic abounds in the Minnesota legislature! I think some are just trying to force the stadium to be in downtown because the businesses there have gotten all pissy that their business and property value will drop with the Vikings moving elsewhere. Guess what's going to happen on a much larger scale when they leave the state, you friggin' nut jobs! People don't want public funds to go to this project, but they don't realize how they benefit from having the Vikings around and how they will be hurt when they leave. So stupid. :F

I guess I better start deciding whether I'm going to be a Lions fan, Packers fan or Chiefs fan. :?


x2..on both.. :F


I think yall are forgetting another option for yourselves. The weather is great in L.A....


Don't forget an upgrade for the cheerleaders as well. :wink:


49'ers

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Oakland Raiders

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for gosh sake put your clothes back on.

Chargers.
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One step closer.

Dayton looking to next year after stadium setback
Gov. Mark Dayton conceded Tuesday that the deal to build the Minnesota Vikings a new stadium may not happen until next year, but he said he's confident it will get done despite a critical setback in the Legislature.

By BRIAN BAKST

Associated Press

RelatedMost Popular CommentsHide / Show comments Aside from being a loon, Dayton is the sitting Democratic governor and it is... (April 17, 2012, by motnam) MORE
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ST. PAUL, Minn. —
Gov. Mark Dayton conceded Tuesday that the deal to build the Minnesota Vikings a new stadium may not happen until next year, but he said he's confident it will get done despite a critical setback in the Legislature.

A state House committee rejected the plan in a 9-6 voter Monday, and with the legislative session nearing an end, Dayton said it's up to lawmakers to decide whether to try again this year.

"I've done everything I can think of to persuade people and will continue to do so," Dayton said. "If we don't get it this session we'll get it next session. Sometimes the difficult takes a while, the impossible takes a little longer."

Dayton has made the stadium a priority, arguing that it would result in construction jobs and keep the NFL franchise, whose lease at the Metrodome expired, from leaving the state. Dayton says he has "no doubt" it will prevail in 2013.

"We have to get a stadium next year or the Vikings will leave," he said. "It's just as clear as that. We can't have it both ways. We can't not do a new stadium and have the Vikings remain here very long."

Republican House Speaker Kurt Zellers blamed Democrats for the committee setback. Only one Democrat voted for the package.

"Now it's probably up to the governor and the Democrat leader in the House to decide if they want to go forward. It was very clear last night they weren't interested in passing the bill out of committee," Zellers said.

"Somebody's going to have to pull a rabbit out of a hat for this thing to be alive at this point," said Rep. Morrie Lanning, the chief House sponsor of the stadium plan. A Senate version of the stadium bill has been stalled in that chamber for the last month.

Lester Bagley, the Vikings' point man on the stadium push at the Capitol, said after the committee vote that the team was "extremely disappointed" at the outcome. "I guess I would ask the state, what else would you expect us to do? What else can we do?" he said.

Bagley said the team would continue to push the proposal as long as the Legislature remains in session. "But this is extremely disappointing, and it sends a strong message to the Vikings and the NFL about the situation," he said. He would not say whether the committee vote made the team's future in Minnesota any less secure.

The proposal would split the cost three ways for a stadium to be built at the current Metrodome site in downtown Minneapolis: $398 million from the state from taxes on expanded gambling, $150 million from the city of Minneapolis from existing sales taxes and $427 million from the Vikings with assistance likely from the NFL.

Before the vote, Vikings officials faced tough questions from several committee members who said they weren't convinced the proposal would be a good deal for taxpayers.

"How do we as representatives of public taxpayers, how do we know we're getting a good deal?" asked Rep. Ryan Winkler, DFL-Golden Valley, who later voted against the proposal. Rep. Bev Scalze, DFL-Little Canada, questioned whether a football stadium was a defensible use of public money when the state is just starting to recover from years of budget problems.

Rep. Dean Urdahl, R-Grove City, repeated a frequently-heard question about the issue: "Why should we help a billionaire build a stadium he can afford to build himself?" he asked, referencing Vikings owner Zygi Wilf.

Bagley defended the project as more than just a football stadium, pointing out it would be used for everything from high school sports tournaments to national events like hosting NCAA basketball finals.

The Vikings say the Metrodome is no longer sufficiently profitable compared with other NFL venues. While the team is committed to playing in the Metrodome for the 2012 football season, it no longer has an active lease in the 30-year-old facility, and team officials have said they do not intend to sign one.
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Yeah, I don't see them in Minnesota three years from now.... the writing is on the wall.
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unimsw wrote:Yeah, I don't see them in Minnesota three years from now.... the writing is on the wall.


it's to the point it's getting surreal. First Dayton and the democrats blame repub's for playing party politics with the stadium. Both parties demand a viable local partner. We now have three. Both Demos and repubs have said the states input can not exceed 350 mill. All three deals meet this.

State leg forces the stadium back downtown by killing the Arden Hills with a no new county taxes and hennepin county partners back up. they ignore the scott county proposal.

Now Dayton and democrats call out repubs to quit playing party politics with the stadium. The bill goes to committee Democrats kill it. Then Dayton says next year we will get it done which was the same mantra we heard last year.

If I was ziggy I'd book a flight to LA an hour ago.
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badgasman9 wrote:One step closer.

Dayton looking to next year after stadium setback
Gov. Mark Dayton conceded Tuesday that the deal to build the Minnesota Vikings a new stadium may not happen until next year, but he said he's confident it will get done despite a critical setback in the Legislature.

By BRIAN BAKST

Associated Press
.
.

Republican House Speaker Kurt Zellers blamed Democrats for the committee setback. Only one Democrat voted for the package.

.
.



The Twins must be represented by a Democrat. Nice new single use stadium they have that they have to rely on the Dome to play early season ball in.. same with the U of M Baseball/Softball programs.

One thing I found hilarious in that article:

"How do we as representatives of public taxpayers, how do we know we're getting a good deal?" asked Rep. Ryan Winkler, DFL-Golden Valley, who later voted against the proposal.


Dumbarse Democrat Harvard College grad sporting a History degree involved in state budgeting :lol: WT-F What a comedy of errors "How do we know we're getting a good deal?" ... umm really?.. whats your job, dumbarse? :F :lol:

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I'm not sure who is more dumb.. ^^ that cat ^^ or the idiots that voted him in. Hilarious.

well done Minnesota .. well done indeed =D>
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