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PostPosted: Wed 01.18.2012, 13:36 
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OarChambo wrote:
Griffimo wrote:
I think RG3 could revolutionize the QB position,.


Sounds like hyperbole.

I don't see what he can possibly do that hasn't been already done (Cunningham, S.Young,Vick,Cam,etc).

Fads come and go, but sticking your foot in the ground, spinning your head running thru progressions, and getting ball out on time and accurately will always be the one truth of all LONG TERM successful franchise QBs... legs only last so long.

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PostPosted: Mon 01.23.2012, 01:35 
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hankrip wrote:
OarChambo wrote:
Griffimo wrote:
I think RG3 could revolutionize the QB position,.


Sounds like hyperbole.

I don't see what he can possibly do that hasn't been already done (Cunningham, S.Young,Vick,Cam,etc).

Quote:
Fads come and go, but sticking your foot in the ground, spinning your head running thru progressions, and getting ball out on time and accurately will always be the one truth of all LONG TERM successful franchise QBs... legs only last so long
.


qft

=D> hank always has the common sense pov..

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PostPosted: Mon 01.23.2012, 01:43 
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OarChambo wrote:
Fighting Amish wrote:
marty1841 wrote:


The Baylor Browns

I can see the Brows taking RGIII and Wright in the first round. Add DT Taylor and there you go..

As to your article, it's a good one. A nice perspective on RG. As to the negatives, there are more than a few potential serious issues. However, as a prospect, he hits all the right notes to legitimately call him a top 5 draft quality player imo. A one read shotgun spread offense translates zero in the NFL. However, as stated by your opinion, his skill set and just as importantly, his Awareness and IQ will translate into taking his talent and learning the pro game. However..some may say, rightly or wrongly, that if he goes to Cleveland, it will destroy all said potential..there is an argument there.. :F

A part of me wants RG3 because Shurmur will have no clue how to use him, implode, then we can rid of his idiot rump and hoipefully replace him with someone who will use him properly.

I also don't think we're going to do that. We'll bluff all off season unless we nab Flynn and if he's there when we pick (meaning St Louis and Minny didn't trade down) then we'll trade down oursleves and look for a different QB later. I won't be mad with that strategy unless wereach for Tannehill with Altnata's pick or take a Foles, Weeden, or Kellen Moore on day 2. Everyone else after RG3 is a day 3 pick only. Maybe Tannehill in round 3. If we wait I hope we go Osweiler.



Oh yah, no doubt. If we reach for Tannehill i'm done. With all the talent available to reach for a qb at #4 or #22 is suicide. You have to stay the course with Mcoy, right or wrong he's shown promise and he's young, smart and passionate about winning at any cost. He's a leader and we need to shore up other skill positions. Wr and Rb at 4 but if we go stud Db there, I wont be upset either. Grab a stud wr at #22..he'll be there. Trading up for RGIII is abysmally stupid. Trade down if he's there a few spots with Tampa or Washington and get who they wanted all along with an extra #2. Honestly..it kills me watching the draft and i never miss a minute of it, every year.

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PostPosted: Mon 01.23.2012, 08:16 
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You have to stay the course with Mcoy, right or wrong he's shown promise and he's young, smart and passionate about winning at any cost.



The sample size is small but I look at McCoy and I don't see whatever "it" is to be a franchise QB and don't think the Browns front office does either given the lukewarm comments that Holgren put out at the end of the season. The GM coming out and saying that McCoy "is atop the depth chart" isn't an endorsement but merely stating the obvious given the roster composition.

I'll be very surprised given the ammo they have to work with in terms of picks this year if the Browns don't make this draft about getting a QB and doing what it takes to move into the 1.2 spot in order to take Griffin. That's obviously conditional on RGIII grading out at the Combine like it's expected that he will. Someone's going to move up to take him and the Browns seem to be the likely candidate IMO.

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PostPosted: Mon 01.23.2012, 15:15 
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why do you think he will be available at #4?

b/t stl and mn, i think the liklihood of one of them trading down is relatively high.

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PostPosted: Mon 01.23.2012, 15:44 
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jesteva wrote:
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You have to stay the course with Mcoy, right or wrong he's shown promise and he's young, smart and passionate about winning at any cost.



The sample size is small but I look at McCoy and I don't see whatever "it" is to be a franchise QB and don't think the Browns front office does either given the lukewarm comments that Holgren put out at the end of the season. The GM coming out and saying that McCoy "is atop the depth chart" isn't an endorsement but merely stating the obvious given the roster composition.

I'll be very surprised given the ammo they have to work with in terms of picks this year if the Browns don't make this draft about getting a QB and doing what it takes to move into the 1.2 spot in order to take Griffin. That's obviously conditional on RGIII grading out at the Combine like it's expected that he will. Someone's going to move up to take him and the Browns seem to be the likely candidate IMO.



All valid, granted, especially when you hear what the owner said recently. Here is an article linked below from a guy who admittedly knows not one thing about American "foosball." Well, i'm not sold on him 100% either, but he has the tools imo to develop. We need to move forward with him this year at the least. He did well in his rookie year with just marginally better better tools around him. The line was healthier, our offense had a system they could execute better and Hillis was running with abandon because there wasn't 8 in the box every play. The difference this year was the Mandatory implementation to stick with Shurmers version of the WCO. His lack of skill as a leader and motivator of men. His piss poor play calling and the pathetic WR play. Nobody was open and it was pounded into Colts skull daily to avoid turnovers.

Short..short..short..shorter passing game. Given the fact he is young with a poor line, zero running game with hillis out or ineffective all year using practice squad players to start at rb, wideouts who would never even make the starting lineup anywhere else, can't run patterns or get open, he did very well imo. Take the exceptional skill players right now..this year with the first 3 picks, grab a qb later, desperately need a rotational D-lineman and right tackle that doesnt grade out worst in the league anymore. Adding a qb early this year is a huge step backward.

The bottom line answer to me is yes, Mccoy is a winner, and I know he'll improve and develop. He's tenacious, smart, hard working and can make the throws with accuracy. That hasn't changed. He needs a little something around him and not the lowest ranked players at almost every position around him.

http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/ ... ns/9437237

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PostPosted: Tue 01.24.2012, 01:09 
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Fighting Amish wrote:
The bottom line answer to me is yes, Mccoy is a winner, and I know he'll improve and develop. He's tenacious, smart, hard working and can make the throws with accuracy. That hasn't changed. He needs a little something around him and not the lowest ranked players at almost every position around him.

http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/ ... ns/9437237


He's a winner? WTH does that mean? It sounds great but really doesn't hold any water. Success in minor leagues has zero bearing on success in the next leagues.

Besides, what was he a winner at? Not screwing up Texas games when they were pounding Eastern Southern Texas Agricultural School at Waco?

But I will give you credit, at least you didn't go "He works hard". That's the worst of all cop outs. :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue 01.24.2012, 03:52 
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pwbowen wrote:
Fighting Amish wrote:
The bottom line answer to me is yes, Mccoy is a winner, and I know he'll improve and develop. He's tenacious, smart, hard working and can make the throws with accuracy. That hasn't changed. He needs a little something around him and not the lowest ranked players at almost every position around him.

http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/ ... ns/9437237


He's a winner? WTH does that mean? It sounds great but really doesn't hold any water. Success in minor leagues has zero bearing on success in the next leagues.

Besides, what was he a winner at? Not screwing up Texas games when they were pounding Eastern Southern Texas Agricultural School at Waco?

But I will give you credit, at least you didn't go "He works hard". That's the worst of all cop outs. :wink:



You know, it's H8'er'ers like yerself who have kept good ole ESTAS-WU from the damn BCS series. For your information, they're in negotiations ..as we speak..with the Colonial Athletic Conference to take the place of East Carolina University. ESTAS for the rest of assz..so they have a little commute to play Maine now and then. They're getting exposure.

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PostPosted: Tue 01.24.2012, 10:36 
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RGIII's 40 time will come in 4.45 or better easily I would say. If I had to guess probably 4.40. He's the state of Texas record holder for the 110 hurdles(set as a JR :shock: ), and Big XII champ at 400 hurdles as a freshman. The former is a much bigger deal with regards to his speed, Texas is a huge track state. There are Olympic medalists that are behind him on the all time state list. He might be capable of low 4.3 something if he's worked on his speed. He was his high school's valedictorian as well, pretty impressive considering he went to a 4a school.

Parents both military, obviously intelligent, unreal athleticism, great work ethic. Good enough size, also seems to have a laser, rocket arm and accurate. I don't get the argument about him having a higher bust potential. Mike Vick wasn't a bust on the field, and didn't have 1/10th of what RGIII's got between the ears. Luck is probably Matt Ryan 2011 in 3-4 years. Whoop-de-do. Give me RGIII and the upside.


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PostPosted: Sat 02.18.2012, 12:51 
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From Rotoworld:
One NFL GM told CBS Sports' Clark Judge that he's "hearing" Baylor QB Robert Griffin III will measure in closer to 6-foot at next week's Combine than the 6-foot-2 he was listed in college.
Judge expects RG3's stock to "rise" in Indianapolis, but it could take a hit early in the week if he measures in smaller and lighter than expected. Griffin's official listing by Baylor was 6-foot-2, 220. Measuring in at 6-foot-1 wouldn't hurt much, but 6-foot-0 could certainly raise some pre-draft eyebrows.

Any thoughts on this part?


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PostPosted: Sat 02.18.2012, 13:15 
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Cannio wrote:
From Rotoworld:
One NFL GM told CBS Sports' Clark Judge that he's "hearing" Baylor QB Robert Griffin III will measure in closer to 6-foot at next week's Combine than the 6-foot-2 he was listed in college.
Judge expects RG3's stock to "rise" in Indianapolis, but it could take a hit early in the week if he measures in smaller and lighter than expected. Griffin's official listing by Baylor was 6-foot-2, 220. Measuring in at 6-foot-1 wouldn't hurt much, but 6-foot-0 could certainly raise some pre-draft eyebrows.

Any thoughts on this part?


Drew Brees says it's not big deal.

And realistically Griffin's not a pure pocket passer where seeing over linemen is such an issue.

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PostPosted: Sat 02.18.2012, 14:15 
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the only thing i see that height difference being an issue is in the number of teams trying to trade up to get him. he'll still be taken early, but i doubt there is much of a push to trade up to get him. i don't think that the rams or whoever will get as much in a trade either. this only hurts his demand and give leverage to teams wanting to/thinking about trading up.

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PostPosted: Sun 02.19.2012, 21:36 
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pwbowen wrote:

Besides, what was he a winner at? Not screwing up Texas games when they were pounding Eastern Southern Texas Agricultural School at Waco?




:lol: says the guy with a SC Game Cocks avatar. Not trying to stir anything up, but I'm pretty sure Colt McCoy has played in more National Title games than SC has in their entire existence. He's also the 4th all-time leading passer in the history of Texas high school football. Texas has produced more NFL players all-time than any other state in the country, so it's not like McCoy's credentials are something to laugh at (even if it is "minor league", as you put it).

McCoy is far from a stud QB, but I'd like to see Cleveland put a decent line in front of him before I jump to any conclusions. Keep in mind that Cleveland gets to play both the Ravens AND the Steelers. Twice. I'd like to see what Cam Newton does in that same situation. Not to take anything away from Newton's spectacular season, but it's not like he had a QB rating over 80 when he had to face a good DEF. Cam actually finished the 2011 season with a QB rating similar to Colt McCoy's.

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PostPosted: Mon 02.20.2012, 00:27 
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Craphead wrote:
pwbowen wrote:

Besides, what was he a winner at? Not screwing up Texas games when they were pounding Eastern Southern Texas Agricultural School at Waco?




:lol: says the guy with a SC Game Cocks avatar. Not trying to stir anything up, but I'm pretty sure Colt McCoy has played in more National Title games than SC has in their entire existence. He's also the 4th all-time leading passer in the history of Texas high school football. Texas has produced more NFL players all-time than any other state in the country, so it's not like McCoy's credentials are something to laugh at (even if it is "minor league", as you put it).

McCoy is far from a stud QB, but I'd like to see Cleveland put a decent line in front of him before I jump to any conclusions. Keep in mind that Cleveland gets to play both the Ravens AND the Steelers. Twice. I'd like to see what Cam Newton does in that same situation. Not to take anything away from Newton's spectacular season, but it's not like he had a QB rating over 80 when he had to face a good DEF. Cam actually finished the 2011 season with a QB rating similar to Colt McCoy's.


Not sure what any of that has to do with whether McCoy is a viable NFL starter, but I'll play.

1.) South Carolina, South Dakota, or South Texas Goathumper U, how does that effect McCoy's short-comings? But you are correct, I do believe he's played 1 PLAY more in a NC game than South Carolina. Bravo.

Winning in college isn't much of a metric to gauge winning in the NFL. Different animal. Whether it's Tebow, Newton or McCoy, it doesn't matter. I don't remember either Manning or Brees or Rodgers winning anything.

2.) That schedule ain't changing. You can't use it as an excuse or you are simply giving away 4 games a year. Life's tough in the NFL. And for the record, Browns opponents 136-120, Panthers opponents 129-127. Pretty much a wash. And just so ya know, Panthers played 8 games against Defenses ranked in the Top 12 of the NFL for 2011.

3.) So basically they're the same QB? After all, QB rating? Ugh. Besides Newton's at just under 85 and McCoy's at just under 75, you don't mention the additional 1300 yards that he threw for? Oh, and where's the run aspect accounted for? Oh, wait, you didn't bother to note the 706 yards (26th overall) that Newton rushed for and 14 TD's scored compared to 212 yds and 0 TD's for McCoy? Dunno about most folks, but 1800 more yards and 21 more TDs produced in a season seems quite a bit more IMO.

But, back to topic, I was disappointed this year with what I saw from McCoy. I expected some growth and improvement and he seemed to regress. Hearing a lot of grumbling tho out of Cleveland about play-calling and such so perhaps it's not all him. I wouldn't be shocked if they grabbed Griffin but I'm not sure they want to pay to move up to get him though.

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PostPosted: Mon 02.20.2012, 11:53 
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Fighting Amish wrote:
jesteva wrote:
Quote:
You have to stay the course with Mcoy, right or wrong he's shown promise and he's young, smart and passionate about winning at any cost.


Short..short..short..shorter passing game. Given the fact he is young with a poor line, zero running game with hillis out or ineffective all year using practice squad players to start at rb, wideouts who would never even make the starting lineup anywhere else, can't run patterns or get open, he did very well imo. Take the exceptional skill players right now..this year with the first 3 picks, grab a qb later, desperately need a rotational D-lineman and right tackle that doesnt grade out worst in the league anymore. Adding a qb early this year is a huge step backward.

The bottom line answer to me is yes, Mccoy is a winner, and I know he'll improve and develop. He's tenacious, smart, hard working and can make the throws with accuracy. That hasn't changed. He needs a little something around him and not the lowest ranked players at almost every position around him.


I see McCoy being about as successful as Chad Pennington. Ceiling.

McCoy is not the answer. I watched a few games last year, because I picked up Greg Little as a WR5 for a while. He may be a "leader", but he's no more a "player" than Tim Tebow.

Simply, he doesn't seem to have the reaction time (or skills), necessary to compete in the modern NFL. He consistently missed reads and left open receivers hanging. He also doesn't have an accurate deep ball to stretch the field. He's not the answer. He was a gamble at 3rd round (really should've been 5th+ round), and two miserable seasons is bad enough, the Browns deserve to lose if they let him on the reigns beyond a 3rd.


Last edited by jnadke on Mon 02.20.2012, 11:58, edited 1 time in total.

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