Who Wins?

Poll ended at Sat 02.04.2012, 22:42

Giants
38
47%
Patriots
43
53%
 
Total votes : 81
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Paddler wrote:One thing got me thinking last night (if it's been discussed please disregard). At one point during the last drive Brady had 19 seconds on the clock. He threw a incomplete pass on a play that consumed roughly 10 seconds. However the Giants had lined up with 12 defenders so there was a flag thrown, resulting in a 5 yard penalty and a first down for NE. Now, this is my question; should't the pass be considered a "free play" with the 19 s still on the clock after it was ruled a incompletion? It was a pre-snap penalty so essentially the play is dead at the snap. As it turned out now the 12 men on the field turned out to give an advantage to the Giants. Having a extra defender is great during the circumstances and the 5 yard + first down was affordable considering 55% of the time was consumed. They could actually afforded 12 guys on the field for the last two plays as well since the Patriots wouldn't be able to reach FG range with just two more 5 yard penalties.


Too many men isn't a dead ball foul.

And if i remember, on the replay it looked like the extra guy was trying to run off the field
Last edited by endzoneview on Mon 02.06.2012, 22:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Paddler wrote:One thing got me thinking last night (if it's been discussed please disregard). At one point during the last drive Brady had 19 seconds on the clock. He threw a incomplete pass on a play that consumed roughly 10 seconds. However the Giants had lined up with 12 defenders so there was a flag thrown, resulting in a 5 yard penalty and a first down for NE. Now, this is my question; should't the pass be considered a "free play" with the 19 s still on the clock after it was ruled a incompletion? It was a pre-snap penalty so essentially the play is dead at the snap. As it turned out now the 12 men on the field turned out to give an advantage to the Giants. Having a extra defender is great during the circumstances and the 5 yard + first down was affordable considering 55% of the time was consumed. They could actually afforded 12 guys on the field for the last two plays as well since the Patriots wouldn't be able to reach FG range with just two more 5 yard penalties.


Of course if succeed in completing a moderate pass play then gave up big chunk and a free time out!
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Paddler wrote:One thing got me thinking last night (if it's been discussed please disregard). At one point during the last drive Brady had 19 seconds on the clock. He threw a incomplete pass on a play that consumed roughly 10 seconds. However the Giants had lined up with 12 defenders so there was a flag thrown, resulting in a 5 yard penalty and a first down for NE. Now, this is my question; should't the pass be considered a "free play" with the 19 s still on the clock after it was ruled a incompletion? It was a pre-snap penalty so essentially the play is dead at the snap. As it turned out now the 12 men on the field turned out to give an advantage to the Giants. Having a extra defender is great during the circumstances and the 5 yard + first down was affordable considering 55% of the time was consumed. They could actually afforded 12 guys on the field for the last two plays as well since the Patriots wouldn't be able to reach FG range with just two more 5 yard penalties.


You forget that the game can't end on a penalty. So free play and 0:00 on the clock.

Also the free play is still in their advantage, since Brady can make risky throws and opt to accept/reject penalty depending if said risky throws succeed.
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endzoneview wrote:
Elmagister wrote:Brady is being crucified. Ridiculous. He completed 16 of 16 for 2 TD at one point.


If you want to read something incredibly ridiculous, read this from boston.com


The legend is dead, the prince has turned back into a frog, and...well, use whatever other cliché you want.

A performance as bad as Tom Brady's tonight in Super Bowl XLVI deserves a lead just as lame.

Sorry, Tommy Boy, this one's on you. Your hideous performance led to the Giants' 21-17 Super Bowl title win. How embarrassing for your coach, your teammates, and your fans.

But especially for you, boy wonder. It was one thing when you led the game off with a safety, which surely put plenty of faith into the heart of Patriot Nation, but just when you have the game, just when you might be able to run off the clock, you huck the thing downfield. Yes, if Wes Welker catches that thing, you're in the clear, and fans will place the blame either way, but what happened to being safe in that situation? What happened to the Patriot Way and clock management?


http://articles.boston.com/2012-02-05/s ... r-patriots


Sadly, that is very typical of the type of reporter that covers Boston and has been for years.

One of the reasons I think fans of Boston sports teams get so rabid in the defense of their star players.
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Paddler wrote:One thing got me thinking last night (if it's been discussed please disregard). At one point during the last drive Brady had 19 seconds on the clock. He threw a incomplete pass on a play that consumed roughly 10 seconds. However the Giants had lined up with 12 defenders so there was a flag thrown, resulting in a 5 yard penalty and a first down for NE. Now, this is my question; should't the pass be considered a "free play" with the 19 s still on the clock after it was ruled a incompletion? It was a pre-snap penalty so essentially the play is dead at the snap. As it turned out now the 12 men on the field turned out to give an advantage to the Giants. Having a extra defender is great during the circumstances and the 5 yard + first down was affordable considering 55% of the time was consumed. They could actually afforded 12 guys on the field for the last two plays as well since the Patriots wouldn't be able to reach FG range with just two more 5 yard penalties.



I wondered the same thing...
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Paddler wrote:One thing got me thinking last night (if it's been discussed please disregard). At one point during the last drive Brady had 19 seconds on the clock. He threw a incomplete pass on a play that consumed roughly 10 seconds. However the Giants had lined up with 12 defenders so there was a flag thrown, resulting in a 5 yard penalty and a first down for NE. Now, this is my question; should't the pass be considered a "free play" with the 19 s still on the clock after it was ruled a incompletion? It was a pre-snap penalty so essentially the play is dead at the snap. As it turned out now the 12 men on the field turned out to give an advantage to the Giants. Having a extra defender is great during the circumstances and the 5 yard + first down was affordable considering 55% of the time was consumed. They could actually afforded 12 guys on the field for the last two plays as well since the Patriots wouldn't be able to reach FG range with just two more 5 yard penalties.



I wondered the same thing...
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endzoneview wrote:
Paddler wrote:One thing got me thinking last night (if it's been discussed please disregard). At one point during the last drive Brady had 19 seconds on the clock. He threw a incomplete pass on a play that consumed roughly 10 seconds. However the Giants had lined up with 12 defenders so there was a flag thrown, resulting in a 5 yard penalty and a first down for NE. Now, this is my question; should't the pass be considered a "free play" with the 19 s still on the clock after it was ruled a incompletion? It was a pre-snap penalty so essentially the play is dead at the snap. As it turned out now the 12 men on the field turned out to give an advantage to the Giants. Having a extra defender is great during the circumstances and the 5 yard + first down was affordable considering 55% of the time was consumed. They could actually afforded 12 guys on the field for the last two plays as well since the Patriots wouldn't be able to reach FG range with just two more 5 yard penalties.


Too many men isn't a dead ball foul.

And if i remember, on the replay it looked like the extra guy was trying to run off the field


I turned to a guy at the party and said I bet the Giants put 12 men on the field on purpose. Think about it. 1 extra defender to stop a potential big play and time still runs of the clock. I was actually yelling for them to do it again, because they could have afforded to do it 1 more time, with 1 extra defender on the field! Only costs you 5 yards minimum, and 1 extra defender is a huge advantage. I honestly think they did it on purpose and it was a bush league move.
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ATL Souljah Boy wrote:
endzoneview wrote:
Paddler wrote:One thing got me thinking last night (if it's been discussed please disregard). At one point during the last drive Brady had 19 seconds on the clock. He threw a incomplete pass on a play that consumed roughly 10 seconds. However the Giants had lined up with 12 defenders so there was a flag thrown, resulting in a 5 yard penalty and a first down for NE. Now, this is my question; should't the pass be considered a "free play" with the 19 s still on the clock after it was ruled a incompletion? It was a pre-snap penalty so essentially the play is dead at the snap. As it turned out now the 12 men on the field turned out to give an advantage to the Giants. Having a extra defender is great during the circumstances and the 5 yard + first down was affordable considering 55% of the time was consumed. They could actually afforded 12 guys on the field for the last two plays as well since the Patriots wouldn't be able to reach FG range with just two more 5 yard penalties.


Too many men isn't a dead ball foul.

And if i remember, on the replay it looked like the extra guy was trying to run off the field


I turned to a guy at the party and said I bet the Giants put 12 men on the field on purpose. Think about it. 1 extra defender to stop a potential big play and time still runs of the clock. I was actually yelling for them to do it again, because they could have afforded to do it 1 more time, with 1 extra defender on the field! Only costs you 5 yards minimum, and 1 extra defender is a huge advantage. I honestly think they did it on purpose and it was a bush league move.


When they did the freeze frame during the game and counted the guys, it looked to me that someone was trying to run off the field. I can't find good video on the play on youtube (just some jackholes pointing their camera phone at the tv and doing their Michael J Fox impersonation)

If however the Giants did this on purpose, it wouldn't be the first time.

Buddy Ryan had the ol' 14 player defense call in his playbook

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I'm sure the Competition Committee will take a closer look at that Super Bowl play and the corresponding penalty.
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So I'm surprised not see any mention of it (or maybe I just imagined it), but on the Patriots last drive with less than a minute left, Brady gets sacked and it looks like he's reaching out and calling for timeout. About 3 or 4 seconds tick off before the clock finally stops. Then on one of the subsequent plays, it was either the completion and run out of bounds or an incomplete pass, but it sure looked like an extra 3 or 4 seconds was run off the clock.

That's a total of 6-8 seconds (one extra play worth of time).

Surely I just imagined it, because I can't believe no one would have brought that up.
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StoneCutter wrote:So I'm surprised not see any mention of it (or maybe I just imagined it), but on the Patriots last drive with less than a minute left, Brady gets sacked and it looks like he's reaching out and calling for timeout. About 3 or 4 seconds tick off before the clock finally stops. Then on one of the subsequent plays, it was either the completion and run out of bounds or an incomplete pass, but it sure looked like an extra 3 or 4 seconds was run off the clock.

That's a total of 6-8 seconds (one extra play worth of time).

Surely I just imagined it, because I can't believe no one would have brought that up.


I noticed on the time out. Not the incompletion.
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StoneCutter wrote:So I'm surprised not see any mention of it (or maybe I just imagined it), but on the Patriots last drive with less than a minute left, Brady gets sacked and it looks like he's reaching out and calling for timeout. About 3 or 4 seconds tick off before the clock finally stops. Then on one of the subsequent plays, it was either the completion and run out of bounds or an incomplete pass, but it sure looked like an extra 3 or 4 seconds was run off the clock.

That's a total of 6-8 seconds (one extra play worth of time).

Surely I just imagined it, because I can't believe no one would have brought that up.


I noticed it too. It seems a good 4 seconds ticked off between when they called for the timeout, and when the refs officially stopped the clock.


But there's no use for them to complain. It only creates bad press.

Goodell is probably hearing all about it.
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This made me laugh.

Also, that's an awesome look at the Buddy Ryan playbook. Obviously the rules have been like this for a long time, and teams are well aware of it. Makes you wonder if the Giants did it on purpose.
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That Brady pic is awesome :thumbright:


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Wish I saw this before the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=en ... YrugFlmKYA

Semi NSFW, there's an S bomb at the end.
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Paddler wrote:One thing got me thinking last night (if it's been discussed please disregard). At one point during the last drive Brady had 19 seconds on the clock. He threw a incomplete pass on a play that consumed roughly 10 seconds. However the Giants had lined up with 12 defenders so there was a flag thrown, resulting in a 5 yard penalty and a first down for NE. Now, this is my question; should't the pass be considered a "free play" with the 19 s still on the clock after it was ruled a incompletion? It was a pre-snap penalty so essentially the play is dead at the snap. As it turned out now the 12 men on the field turned out to give an advantage to the Giants. Having a extra defender is great during the circumstances and the 5 yard + first down was affordable considering 55% of the time was consumed. They could actually afforded 12 guys on the field for the last two plays as well since the Patriots wouldn't be able to reach FG range with just two more 5 yard penalties.


I mentioned that during the game, and was promptly shot down by people that apparently were incapable of understanding the implications.

I still think in the right situation it can be a valuable strategy.
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