FantasySharks.com

There are two types of Fantasy Football Owners: Sharks and Chum, which are you?
It is currently Wed 07.30.2014, 02:03

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 89 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri 02.10.2012, 00:07 
Offline
Megalodon
Megalodon
User avatar

Joined: Fri 09.17.2004, 11:10
Posts: 21760
Sand$: 98211
Donate
Location: Whale's Vagina
cin.gif
Do you hold the belief that God is all good/omnibenevolent?

I'm asking because I'm currently in a philosophy class and subject is the existence of god. The three main premises are that god is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omnibenevolent. Now to the best of my knowledge the bible never makes this claim of being all good. I am unsure on the other religions and I'm curious, if you hold this belief what text/scripture etc you base this belief on.

My curiosity stems from the fact that a huge chunk of the arguments for atheism are spent proving that god isn't all good, my thought is that they spend a lot of time disproving an already conceded point.

_________________
If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. - George S. Patton
Real men have scars, lots of them... -Dad


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 02.10.2012, 00:14 
Offline
Megalodon
Megalodon
User avatar

Joined: Sat 10.17.2009, 23:41
Posts: 11735
Sand$: 20848
Donate
Location: Texas
dal.gif
i have heard the phrase "our God is an angry God"


Even at Horeb you provoked the Lord to wrath, and the Lord was so angry with you that he was ready to destroy you. Deuteronomy 9:8

Then the anger of the Lord will be kindled against you, and you shall perish quickly from off the good land that he has given to you. Joshua 23:16

Behold, the day of the Lord comes, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger, to make the land a desolation and to destroy its sinners from it. Isaiah 13:9

While the food was still in their mouths, the anger of God rose against them, and he killed the strongest of them and laid low the young men of Israel. Psalm 78:30-31



according to all three religions all of mankind is descended from Abraham :-k


If God was all good would there be a hell?

_________________
9th Annual Kicker/Defense Challenge

IBL
JT3.2A 3.3C(27), 3.11D(35) , 4.2D(38) , 4.11A(47), 5.3C(51) , 6.2D(62), 6.10C(70), 7.02B(74), 10.2D(110) , 11.11D(131), 12.2D(134), 13.11D(155), 14.2D(158) , 15.11D(179) , 16.2D(182) , 16.11B(191) , 18.11B(215)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 02.10.2012, 00:19 
Offline
Megalodon
Megalodon
User avatar

Joined: Wed 10.18.2006, 23:49
Posts: 13584
Sand$: 6671
Donate
Location: North Dakota
gb.gif
Believe it or not, this agnostic shark used to be very very religious.

No where in the bible is God described as inherently good. He is described as loving, but not good. If I would have to use one word to describe the Christian god, it would be Just.

_________________
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 02.10.2012, 00:27 
Offline
Megalodon
Megalodon
User avatar

Joined: Sat 10.17.2009, 23:41
Posts: 11735
Sand$: 20848
Donate
Location: Texas
dal.gif
The Old Testament is full of stories about God telling the chosen people to commit genocide.

Of course the Quran has Allah telling the Muslims to commit genocide

_________________
9th Annual Kicker/Defense Challenge

IBL
JT3.2A 3.3C(27), 3.11D(35) , 4.2D(38) , 4.11A(47), 5.3C(51) , 6.2D(62), 6.10C(70), 7.02B(74), 10.2D(110) , 11.11D(131), 12.2D(134), 13.11D(155), 14.2D(158) , 15.11D(179) , 16.2D(182) , 16.11B(191) , 18.11B(215)


Last edited by 625james on Fri 02.10.2012, 00:29, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 02.10.2012, 00:28 
Offline
Megalodon
Megalodon
User avatar

Joined: Fri 09.17.2004, 11:10
Posts: 21760
Sand$: 98211
Donate
Location: Whale's Vagina
cin.gif
So far you are confirming what I already thought. I'm curious on the other religions as well, if they hold that belief and what supports it.

_________________
If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. - George S. Patton
Real men have scars, lots of them... -Dad


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 02.10.2012, 00:33 
Offline
Megalodon
Megalodon
User avatar

Joined: Sat 10.17.2009, 23:41
Posts: 11735
Sand$: 20848
Donate
Location: Texas
dal.gif
From what I understand the Torah and the Quran are related texts, possibly descended from the same book :?:

The Old Testament is basically the same thing as the Torah.

_________________
9th Annual Kicker/Defense Challenge

IBL
JT3.2A 3.3C(27), 3.11D(35) , 4.2D(38) , 4.11A(47), 5.3C(51) , 6.2D(62), 6.10C(70), 7.02B(74), 10.2D(110) , 11.11D(131), 12.2D(134), 13.11D(155), 14.2D(158) , 15.11D(179) , 16.2D(182) , 16.11B(191) , 18.11B(215)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 02.10.2012, 00:42 
Offline
Megalodon
Megalodon
User avatar

Joined: Fri 09.17.2004, 11:10
Posts: 21760
Sand$: 98211
Donate
Location: Whale's Vagina
cin.gif
625james wrote:
From what I understand the Torah and the Quran are related texts, possibly descended from the same book :?:

The Old Testament is basically the same thing as the Torah.


I am aware of this and also believe that neither of these books make that claim of God being all good... but I would very much like to hear from those folks who are better acquainted with these religions.

_________________
If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. - George S. Patton
Real men have scars, lots of them... -Dad


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 02.10.2012, 00:42 
Offline
Whale Shark
User avatar

Joined: Tue 09.01.2009, 22:26
Posts: 1168
Sand$: 1997
Donate
Location: dallas
dal.gif
BuckeyeFtblGod wrote:
Do you hold the belief that God is all good/omnibenevolent?

I'm asking because I'm currently in a philosophy class and subject is the existence of god. The three main premises are that god is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omnibenevolent. Now to the best of my knowledge the bible never makes this claim of being all good. I am unsure on the other religions and I'm curious, if you hold this belief what text/scripture etc you base this belief on.

My curiosity stems from the fact that a huge chunk of the arguments for atheism are spent proving that god isn't all good, my thought is that they spend a lot of time disproving an already conceded point.


actually the Jesus, specifically states that, "...And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him and asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone."
(Mark 10:17-18 ESV)

http://www.esvbible.org/search/goodness/

And he said, “I will make all my goodness pass before you and will proclaim before you my name ‘The Lord.’ And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy. Exodus 33:19 (Exodus 33)

2 Chronicles 6:41 (2 Chronicles 6)
“And now arise, O Lord God, and go to your resting place, you and the ark of your might. Let your priests, O Lord God, be clothed with salvation, and let your saints rejoice in your goodness.

there are several more...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 02.10.2012, 00:46 
Offline
Megalodon
Megalodon
User avatar

Joined: Sat 10.17.2009, 23:41
Posts: 11735
Sand$: 20848
Donate
Location: Texas
dal.gif
God's attitude changed from the Old Testament to the New Testament. It was explained to me that Jesus being on Earth caused the change in God :?

_________________
9th Annual Kicker/Defense Challenge

IBL
JT3.2A 3.3C(27), 3.11D(35) , 4.2D(38) , 4.11A(47), 5.3C(51) , 6.2D(62), 6.10C(70), 7.02B(74), 10.2D(110) , 11.11D(131), 12.2D(134), 13.11D(155), 14.2D(158) , 15.11D(179) , 16.2D(182) , 16.11B(191) , 18.11B(215)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 02.10.2012, 00:54 
Offline
Whale Shark
User avatar

Joined: Tue 09.01.2009, 22:26
Posts: 1168
Sand$: 1997
Donate
Location: dallas
dal.gif
625james wrote:
i have heard the phrase "our God is an angry God"


Even at Horeb you provoked the Lord to wrath, and the Lord was so angry with you that he was ready to destroy you. Deuteronomy 9:8

Then the anger of the Lord will be kindled against you, and you shall perish quickly from off the good land that he has given to you. Joshua 23:16

Behold, the day of the Lord comes, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger, to make the land a desolation and to destroy its sinners from it. Isaiah 13:9

While the food was still in their mouths, the anger of God rose against them, and he killed the strongest of them and laid low the young men of Israel. Psalm 78:30-31



according to all three religions all of mankind is descended from Abraham :-k


If God was all good would there be a hell?


if there is no hell then God is unjust and therefore not good-justice is the cross-its the mark of how far God is willing to go for you, in spite of you.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 02.10.2012, 00:58 
Offline
Megalodon
Megalodon
User avatar

Joined: Fri 09.17.2004, 11:10
Posts: 21760
Sand$: 98211
Donate
Location: Whale's Vagina
cin.gif
ffking24 wrote:
BuckeyeFtblGod wrote:
Do you hold the belief that God is all good/omnibenevolent?

I'm asking because I'm currently in a philosophy class and subject is the existence of god. The three main premises are that god is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omnibenevolent. Now to the best of my knowledge the bible never makes this claim of being all good. I am unsure on the other religions and I'm curious, if you hold this belief what text/scripture etc you base this belief on.

My curiosity stems from the fact that a huge chunk of the arguments for atheism are spent proving that god isn't all good, my thought is that they spend a lot of time disproving an already conceded point.


actually the Jesus, specifically states that, "...And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him and asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone."
(Mark 10:17-18 ESV)

http://www.esvbible.org/search/goodness/

And he said, “I will make all my goodness pass before you and will proclaim before you my name ‘The Lord.’ And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy. Exodus 33:19 (Exodus 33)

2 Chronicles 6:41 (2 Chronicles 6)
“And now arise, O Lord God, and go to your resting place, you and the ark of your might. Let your priests, O Lord God, be clothed with salvation, and let your saints rejoice in your goodness.

there are several more...


The part I find interesting isn't the claim that god is good, it's the fact that god isn't claimed to be all good. In fact it was shown in multiple scriptures that god doesn't always do good, and that is exactly what all good claims. All religions claim good, I don't know of any that claim all good... To date the only people I've ever heard proclaim omnibenevolence are atheist and those that are truly unfamiliar with the bible. Occasionally a random Catholic will as well...

_________________
If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. - George S. Patton
Real men have scars, lots of them... -Dad


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 02.10.2012, 01:03 
Offline
Megalodon
Megalodon
User avatar

Joined: Fri 09.17.2004, 11:10
Posts: 21760
Sand$: 98211
Donate
Location: Whale's Vagina
cin.gif
I would go as far as stating that any God can not be both just and omnibenevolent at the same time. My reasoning is that omnibenevolence provides for unending opportunity for redemption where as justice provides for a finite opportunity for redemption that ends in punishment.

_________________
If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. - George S. Patton
Real men have scars, lots of them... -Dad


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 02.10.2012, 01:23 
Offline
Whale Shark
User avatar

Joined: Tue 09.01.2009, 22:26
Posts: 1168
Sand$: 1997
Donate
Location: dallas
dal.gif
625james wrote:
God's attitude changed from the Old Testament to the New Testament. It was explained to me that Jesus being on Earth caused the change in God :?


he's a sermon on the seemingly grumpiness of the OT God:

http://www.thevillagechurch.net/media/s ... TheLaw.pdf

excerpt:

"If you’ll really study the Bible, one of the first things that starts happening to you
is you have to do something with the fact that God in the
Old Testament seems a little grumpier than the God in the New Testament. It’s just like in the Old
Testament the reaction is like, “Alright, I’m killing everyone.” He just shows up and is like, “Oh,
remember when I told you not to touch the treasure and you touched it? Now I’m going to kill you,
your wife, your children, your cows, your dog, your cousin, your parents and then I’m just going to
burn the city to the ground.” And then in the New Testament He’s like, “Come to Me all who are
weary.” So in the New Testament He sits at the table with the thief and the whore, and in the Old
Testament He catches them on fire. So you’ve got to do something with that. And this is what some
people think. They think, “Oh, you’ve got two different Gods” or “As God grew older He kind of
mellowed out.” You get these really weird ideas that happen.

The truth is the New Testament would unpack it like this. What you’ve got to be careful of is this idea
that here was plan A and plan A failed. So God rolls out the Ten Commandments and goes, “Do these
things and things are going to be great, I’ll be pleased and you’ll walk in fulfillment of life and vitality
and energy.” And then 2000 years later He looked down and is like, “Oh, this has gone bad. Alright,
huddle up. Jesus, Holy Spirit, in here. We gave them the Ten. What are we going to do here?” And
Jesus is like, “I’ll handle it,” and Jesus comes down. And that’s kind of Plan B, because Plan A failed
miserably. That’s a horrible way to look at it because what you’ve just done is removed the deity from
God. Because now God was surprised, His plan didn’t work. And you’ve taken away historic views of
God, His omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence. The Gospel of Luke and on into Acts and the
rest of the New Testament, they’re going to talk about the Old Testament and the New Testament like
this. They’re going to talk about a promise made and then a promise fulfilled. So the Old Testament is
a promise that was made to God’s people, and then it’s going to get fulfilled in the person and work of
Jesus Christ. So it’s not Plan A/Plan B, it’s more Phase I/Phase II. So let me give you Phase I of the
plan, and then from Phase I we’ll get into Phase II."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 02.10.2012, 01:31 
Offline
Megalodon
Megalodon
User avatar

Joined: Fri 09.17.2004, 11:10
Posts: 21760
Sand$: 98211
Donate
Location: Whale's Vagina
cin.gif
ffking24 wrote:
625james wrote:
God's attitude changed from the Old Testament to the New Testament. It was explained to me that Jesus being on Earth caused the change in God :?


he's a sermon on the seemingly grumpiness of the OT God:

http://www.thevillagechurch.net/media/s ... TheLaw.pdf

excerpt:

"If you’ll really study the Bible, one of the first things that starts happening to you
is you have to do something with the fact that God in the
Old Testament seems a little grumpier than the God in the New Testament. It’s just like in the Old
Testament the reaction is like, “Alright, I’m killing everyone.” He just shows up and is like, “Oh,
remember when I told you not to touch the treasure and you touched it? Now I’m going to kill you,
your wife, your children, your cows, your dog, your cousin, your parents and then I’m just going to
burn the city to the ground.” And then in the New Testament He’s like, “Come to Me all who are
weary.” So in the New Testament He sits at the table with the thief and the whore, and in the Old
Testament He catches them on fire. So you’ve got to do something with that. And this is what some
people think. They think, “Oh, you’ve got two different Gods” or “As God grew older He kind of
mellowed out.” You get these really weird ideas that happen.

The truth is the New Testament would unpack it like this. What you’ve got to be careful of is this idea
that here was plan A and plan A failed. So God rolls out the Ten Commandments and goes, “Do these
things and things are going to be great, I’ll be pleased and you’ll walk in fulfillment of life and vitality
and energy.” And then 2000 years later He looked down and is like, “Oh, this has gone bad. Alright,
huddle up. Jesus, Holy Spirit, in here. We gave them the Ten. What are we going to do here?” And
Jesus is like, “I’ll handle it,” and Jesus comes down. And that’s kind of Plan B, because Plan A failed
miserably. That’s a horrible way to look at it because what you’ve just done is removed the deity from
God. Because now God was surprised, His plan didn’t work. And you’ve taken away historic views of
God, His omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence. The Gospel of Luke and on into Acts and the
rest of the New Testament, they’re going to talk about the Old Testament and the New Testament like
this. They’re going to talk about a promise made and then a promise fulfilled. So the Old Testament is
a promise that was made to God’s people, and then it’s going to get fulfilled in the person and work of
Jesus Christ. So it’s not Plan A/Plan B, it’s more Phase I/Phase II. So let me give you Phase I of the
plan, and then from Phase I we’ll get into Phase II."


That sermon excerpt contradicts the concept of Omnipotence and has no reference to actual scripture...

_________________
If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. - George S. Patton
Real men have scars, lots of them... -Dad


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 02.10.2012, 01:41 
Offline
Whale Shark
User avatar

Joined: Tue 09.01.2009, 22:26
Posts: 1168
Sand$: 1997
Donate
Location: dallas
dal.gif
BuckeyeFtblGod wrote:
ffking24 wrote:
625james wrote:
God's attitude changed from the Old Testament to the New Testament. It was explained to me that Jesus being on Earth caused the change in God :?


he's a sermon on the seemingly grumpiness of the OT God:

http://www.thevillagechurch.net/media/s ... TheLaw.pdf

excerpt:

"If you’ll really study the Bible, one of the first things that starts happening to you
is you have to do something with the fact that God in the
Old Testament seems a little grumpier than the God in the New Testament. It’s just like in the Old
Testament the reaction is like, “Alright, I’m killing everyone.” He just shows up and is like, “Oh,
remember when I told you not to touch the treasure and you touched it? Now I’m going to kill you,
your wife, your children, your cows, your dog, your cousin, your parents and then I’m just going to
burn the city to the ground.” And then in the New Testament He’s like, “Come to Me all who are
weary.” So in the New Testament He sits at the table with the thief and the whore, and in the Old
Testament He catches them on fire. So you’ve got to do something with that. And this is what some
people think. They think, “Oh, you’ve got two different Gods” or “As God grew older He kind of
mellowed out.” You get these really weird ideas that happen.

The truth is the New Testament would unpack it like this. What you’ve got to be careful of is this idea
that here was plan A and plan A failed. So God rolls out the Ten Commandments and goes, “Do these
things and things are going to be great, I’ll be pleased and you’ll walk in fulfillment of life and vitality
and energy.” And then 2000 years later He looked down and is like, “Oh, this has gone bad. Alright,
huddle up. Jesus, Holy Spirit, in here. We gave them the Ten. What are we going to do here?” And
Jesus is like, “I’ll handle it,” and Jesus comes down. And that’s kind of Plan B, because Plan A failed
miserably. That’s a horrible way to look at it because what you’ve just done is removed the deity from
God. Because now God was surprised, His plan didn’t work. And you’ve taken away historic views of
God, His omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence. The Gospel of Luke and on into Acts and the
rest of the New Testament, they’re going to talk about the Old Testament and the New Testament like
this. They’re going to talk about a promise made and then a promise fulfilled. So the Old Testament is
a promise that was made to God’s people, and then it’s going to get fulfilled in the person and work of
Jesus Christ. So it’s not Plan A/Plan B, it’s more Phase I/Phase II. So let me give you Phase I of the
plan, and then from Phase I we’ll get into Phase II."


That sermon excerpt contradicts the concept of Omnipotence and has no reference to actual scripture...


i submitted a link if to read in full, didnt want to tye up the board...the sermon context is luke 18


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 89 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group