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 Post subject: Graham or Gronkowski
PostPosted: Wed 06.20.2012, 09:52 
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I have not seen good discussion of this, but what are the pro's and con's of these two. Here are a few links to peruse:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d829f40ca/article/nfls-best-tight-end-rob-gronkowski-or-jimmy-graham

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d829cd462/article/rob-gronkowski-should-be-ahead-of-jimmy-graham-

http://nflsoup.com/?p=26574

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/fantasy-roto-arcade/spin-doctors-jimmy-graham-vs-rob-gronkowski-150259661.html

My own leaning is towards Graham as the top TE for 2012. I think Gronkowski is fantastic, but I think the Saints will increase the use of Graham. NO added Nick Toon to the WR's, but lost Meachem. NE has one new target at WR, in Lloyd that I think may get a big set of targets which might take a few away from Gronkowski.

Gronkowski had the one of the best years, second to Megatron in recieving in most leagues. Anyone expecting a repeat of that should be drafting him ahead of Megatron, as the value at WR is deeper. I think both Graham and Gronk will repeat the elite performances. They look to be going in round 2, so that evaluation is shared.


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 Post subject: Re: Graham or Gronkowski
PostPosted: Wed 06.20.2012, 10:02 
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I don't think you can go wrong with either. I think both finish way ahead of the tight end pack again this year. I've never taken a tight end early but these guys are really making me think about it since they are not only difference makers for their teams, but fantasy teams.

I will say I've begun to lean toward Graham in recent weeks. I like that he's playing for a contract and is staying out of the news unlike Gronk.


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 Post subject: Re: Graham or Gronkowski
PostPosted: Wed 06.20.2012, 10:49 
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No one ever seems to talk about how Belichick often uniquely picks one offensive strategy each season to hammer for a season, and set records. If there's one thing I believe is Bilichick to be a total student of the game who wants to leave his mark on as many things possible in the record books.

I wouldn't be surprised to see yet another change, with Gronk not the focus. I'm not saying it's going to happen, at all, but heck.

I wouldn't be surprised if this season, say, he took an underdog like Vereen and turned him into a stud or something. You know, feature the run. Just to throw everyone off yet again, simply because he can. Not sure what it will be, but I could see it being something completely different. Maybe they will be the first team in a long time to feature a fullback? :lol:

Who knows.


My point is it seems really risky to bank on Gronkowski to again get anything like 90 receptions and TE records in receiving yards and TDs.

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 Post subject: Re: Graham or Gronkowski
PostPosted: Wed 06.20.2012, 11:06 
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Then there's Graham. Perhaps a safer bet to keep his pecking order within the team. Yet, the Saints as a team have implode potential written all over them this season. So there's that risk.



Either way, I think both guys are way overvalued right now.

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 Post subject: Re: Graham or Gronkowski
PostPosted: Wed 06.20.2012, 11:16 
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Give me Jacob Tamme in the 10th and Im happy.

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 Post subject: Re: Graham or Gronkowski
PostPosted: Wed 06.20.2012, 11:40 
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The BlueBeards wrote:


Either way, I think both guys are way overvalued right now.


X2

You can have Gronk/Graham in the 2nd and I'll take a mid tier RB1 or a WR1 and then grab A.Hernandez/Finley/Gates 3 rds rounds later... or wait on a Tamme type.

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 Post subject: Re: Graham or Gronkowski
PostPosted: Wed 06.20.2012, 12:02 
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hankrip wrote:
The BlueBeards wrote:


Either way, I think both guys are way overvalued right now.


X2

You can have Gronk/Graham in the 2nd and I'll take a mid tier RB1 or a WR1 and then grab A.Hernandez/Finley/Gates 3 rds rounds later... or wait on a Tamme type.


Same here. No way I'm blowing a 2nd rounder in the hopes of a repeat career performance.

No Peyton and no Brees (at the moment) in New Orleans? No thanks to dbag Graham.

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 Post subject: Re: Graham or Gronkowski
PostPosted: Wed 06.20.2012, 12:09 
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pwbowen wrote:
No thanks to dbag Graham.


Is there anybody in the NFC South that you like?


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 Post subject: Re: Graham or Gronkowski
PostPosted: Wed 06.20.2012, 12:15 
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endzoneview wrote:
pwbowen wrote:
No thanks to dbag Graham.


Is there anybody in the NFC South that you like?


Personally, Ryan and Freeman seem to be stand-up guys. Roddy White's goofiness entertains me.

If you don't think Graham is a punk at times, I don't think you've watched a lot of him.

I'll try harder to be more positive and friendly like Jets fans are though. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Graham or Gronkowski
PostPosted: Wed 06.20.2012, 12:28 
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hankrip wrote:
The BlueBeards wrote:


Either way, I think both guys are way overvalued right now.


X2

You can have Gronk/Graham in the 2nd and I'll take a mid tier RB1 or a WR1 and then grab A.Hernandez/Finley/Gates 3 rds rounds later... or wait on a Tamme type.


The difference between a Graham/Maclin combo and Fitzgerald/Gates combo ends up being the same when comparing 2nd/5th round selections

While I like Tamme/Pettigrew/Fred Davis types, they won't give you the consistent weeks that Graham can give you. Gronk was a little bit more up and down last year, but if you're looking at what each gives you per week, I think you can make a case for these top two guys easily.


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 Post subject: Re: Graham or Gronkowski
PostPosted: Wed 06.20.2012, 13:46 
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pwbowen wrote:
hankrip wrote:
The BlueBeards wrote:


Either way, I think both guys are way overvalued right now.


X2

You can have Gronk/Graham in the 2nd and I'll take a mid tier RB1 or a WR1 and then grab A.Hernandez/Finley/Gates 3 rds rounds later... or wait on a Tamme type.


Same here. No way I'm blowing a 2nd rounder in the hopes of a repeat career performance.

No Peyton and no Brees (at the moment) in New Orleans? No thanks to dbag Graham.

Have you heard Graham's backstory? Based on that I give him a pass on the "punk" behavior. There's a lot worse things he could have become. Back on subject.....to those passing on these two in the 2nd, what round would you find yourself unable to pass them up?

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 Post subject: Re: Graham or Gronkowski
PostPosted: Wed 06.20.2012, 13:58 
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endzoneview wrote:
hankrip wrote:
The BlueBeards wrote:


Either way, I think both guys are way overvalued right now.


X2

You can have Gronk/Graham in the 2nd and I'll take a mid tier RB1 or a WR1 and then grab A.Hernandez/Finley/Gates 3 rds rounds later... or wait on a Tamme type.


The difference between a Graham/Maclin combo and Fitzgerald/Gates combo ends up being the same when comparing 2nd/5th round selections



If you go by last year, sure. I think in 2012, a 5th rd TE (Hernandez,Finley,Gates) has a much better chance of coming close to Graham's production than a RB you would find in 5th rd would to a 2nd rd RB. I agree on Fitz/Maclin as there are plenty of nice WR options still around in the 5th.

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 Post subject: Re: Graham or Gronkowski
PostPosted: Wed 06.20.2012, 14:16 
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hankrip wrote:
endzoneview wrote:
hankrip wrote:
The BlueBeards wrote:


Either way, I think both guys are way overvalued right now.


X2

You can have Gronk/Graham in the 2nd and I'll take a mid tier RB1 or a WR1 and then grab A.Hernandez/Finley/Gates 3 rds rounds later... or wait on a Tamme type.


The difference between a Graham/Maclin combo and Fitzgerald/Gates combo ends up being the same when comparing 2nd/5th round selections



If you go by last year, sure. I think in 2012, a 5th rd TE (Hernandez,Finley,Gates) has a much better chance of coming close to Graham's production than a RB you would find in 5th rd would to a 2nd rd RB. I agree on Fitz/Maclin as there are plenty of nice WR options still around in the 5th.


Yeah, I'd agree the gap in RB's would be greater.

I personally don't see those second tier tight ends closing the gap on Graham and Gronk all that much. I understand it's going to be nearly impossible for each to duplicate what they did last year, those were two of the greatest tight end seasons of all time, but the margin they had on the rest of the tight end group who all had typically good seasons was just incredible. I can't imagine either regressing to half of their production in 2012, which would put them inline with what that tight ends 3-10 will do.

If you take away all of Gronk's and Graham's TD's and just score them on yardage, they still finish as the 1st and 2nd tight ends last year.


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 Post subject: Re: Graham or Gronkowski
PostPosted: Wed 06.20.2012, 15:00 
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scootm44 wrote:
pwbowen wrote:
hankrip wrote:
The BlueBeards wrote:


Either way, I think both guys are way overvalued right now.


X2

You can have Gronk/Graham in the 2nd and I'll take a mid tier RB1 or a WR1 and then grab A.Hernandez/Finley/Gates 3 rds rounds later... or wait on a Tamme type.


Same here. No way I'm blowing a 2nd rounder in the hopes of a repeat career performance.

No Peyton and no Brees (at the moment) in New Orleans? No thanks to dbag Graham.

Have you heard Graham's backstory? Based on that I give him a pass on the "punk" behavior. There's a lot worse things he could have become. Back on subject.....to those passing on these two in the 2nd, what round would you find yourself unable to pass them up?


Dude's a grown up, I don't care about his backstory to excuse acting like mini-Jeremy Stevens now. That's the reason TO was allowed to be TO, feeling bad for him for a rough childhood. And I'm not calling criminal like Talib, just acting like a punk during games. Hopefully Graham will get it as he matures.

As to drafting, I can't say for sure but I'd have a tough time before later round 4 or so grabbing a TE. I expect both to come towards the norm and I expect someone will draft them based on last year's production.

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 Post subject: Re: Graham or Gronkowski
PostPosted: Wed 06.20.2012, 15:03 
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endzoneview wrote:
hankrip wrote:
The BlueBeards wrote:


Either way, I think both guys are way overvalued right now.


X2

You can have Gronk/Graham in the 2nd and I'll take a mid tier RB1 or a WR1 and then grab A.Hernandez/Finley/Gates 3 rds rounds later... or wait on a Tamme type.


The difference between a Graham/Maclin combo and Fitzgerald/Gates combo ends up being the same when comparing 2nd/5th round selections

While I like Tamme/Pettigrew/Fred Davis types, they won't give you the consistent weeks that Graham can give you. Gronk was a little bit more up and down last year, but if you're looking at what each gives you per week, I think you can make a case for these top two guys easily.


no its not, might be a little early for both of us to discuss it, but I dont think they are the same.


Last edited by rugger48 on Wed 06.20.2012, 15:08, edited 3 times in total.

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