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PostPosted: Sun 09.16.2012, 19:09 
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The end of the Giants’ 41-34 win was highlighted by an angrier than normal Tom Coughlin giving Bucs coach Greg Schiano a piece of his mind about the way the Tampa defensive line knocked down Eli Manning in an attempt to dislodge the ball as Manning knelt down on the final play of the game.

Several other Giants players expressed disgust with Tampa’s actions after the game was over and guard Chris Snee, via Mike Garafolo of USA TODAY, accused Bucs players of diving with helmets into the knees of the Giants. Garafolo also spoke with Buccaneers defensive tackle Gerald McCoy after the game and McCoy gave a hint about where the defense came up with the idea of crashing the line on the final play.

“We do what we’re coached,” McCoy said. “I’ll leave it at that.” via PFT


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PostPosted: Sun 09.16.2012, 19:14 
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As far as I'm concerned, the game isn't over 'til it's over. Obviously, deliberately targeting knees with helmets is inexcusable, but there's no reason why they shouldn't try to disrupt a kneel down in a one score game.

ETA: Watching in Ireland, Mark Tauscher (former Packer OL) was working as a studio analyst on our feed. He was adamant that one of the few unwritten rules of the NFL is you don't try to break up a kneel down at the end of the game. Seems like BS to me or maybe his view is just biased as a former OL.


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PostPosted: Sun 09.16.2012, 20:20 
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Coughlin....Wins!

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PostPosted: Sun 09.16.2012, 20:27 
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Gotta love Tom Coughlin... especially telling Schiano that whatever his excuse was "F***ing Bull****" before shaking his hand.

Its very rare to see D Lineman come after the kneel down play in the NFL - thinking its a professional courtesy when the game is out of hand. I have never seen a fumble happen in the "victory" formation.


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PostPosted: Sun 09.16.2012, 22:12 
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KevD wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, the game isn't over 'til it's over. Obviously, deliberately targeting knees with helmets is inexcusable, but there's no reason why they shouldn't try to disrupt a kneel down in a one score game.

ETA: Watching in Ireland, Mark Tauscher (former Packer OL) was working as a studio analyst on our feed. He was adamant that one of the few unwritten rules of the NFL is you don't try to break up a kneel down at the end of the game. Seems like BS to me or maybe his view is just biased as a former OL.


Sorry, Kev, you're wrong.

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PostPosted: Sun 09.16.2012, 22:25 
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TheNataliePortmans wrote:
KevD wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, the game isn't over 'til it's over. Obviously, deliberately targeting knees with helmets is inexcusable, but there's no reason why they shouldn't try to disrupt a kneel down in a one score game.

ETA: Watching in Ireland, Mark Tauscher (former Packer OL) was working as a studio analyst on our feed. He was adamant that one of the few unwritten rules of the NFL is you don't try to break up a kneel down at the end of the game. Seems like BS to me or maybe his view is just biased as a former OL.


Sorry, Kev, you're wrong.


Great, thanks for letting me know.

I'm not going to excuse dirty play but, by the same token, I wouldn't be happy with my team just lying down before the game's over, while there's still a chance of a fumble and a tying score.


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PostPosted: Sun 09.16.2012, 22:35 
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KevD wrote:
TheNataliePortmans wrote:
KevD wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, the game isn't over 'til it's over. Obviously, deliberately targeting knees with helmets is inexcusable, but there's no reason why they shouldn't try to disrupt a kneel down in a one score game.

ETA: Watching in Ireland, Mark Tauscher (former Packer OL) was working as a studio analyst on our feed. He was adamant that one of the few unwritten rules of the NFL is you don't try to break up a kneel down at the end of the game. Seems like BS to me or maybe his view is just biased as a former OL.


Sorry, Kev, you're wrong.


Great, thanks for letting me know.

I'm not going to excuse dirty play but, by the same token, I wouldn't be happy with my team just lying down before the game's over, while there's still a chance of a fumble and a tying score.


People should run the score up on them all year long.


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PostPosted: Sun 09.16.2012, 22:42 
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Elmagister wrote:
KevD wrote:
TheNataliePortmans wrote:
KevD wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, the game isn't over 'til it's over. Obviously, deliberately targeting knees with helmets is inexcusable, but there's no reason why they shouldn't try to disrupt a kneel down in a one score game.

ETA: Watching in Ireland, Mark Tauscher (former Packer OL) was working as a studio analyst on our feed. He was adamant that one of the few unwritten rules of the NFL is you don't try to break up a kneel down at the end of the game. Seems like BS to me or maybe his view is just biased as a former OL.


Sorry, Kev, you're wrong.


Great, thanks for letting me know.

I'm not going to excuse dirty play but, by the same token, I wouldn't be happy with my team just lying down before the game's over, while there's still a chance of a fumble and a tying score.


People should run the score up on them all year long.


Meh. I honestly don't get why people take such issue with that either. In high school or college, if another team is clearly vastly inferior, sure, there's an argument to be made for sportsmanship. But these are all adult men, who are professionals doing a job. If you don't want someone running up the score then make a play on defense.

Why should a team be expected to roll over and give up any chance of rescuing the game just because the other team has decided they want to run the clock out?


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PostPosted: Mon 09.17.2012, 01:49 
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KevD wrote:
TheNataliePortmans wrote:
KevD wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, the game isn't over 'til it's over. Obviously, deliberately targeting knees with helmets is inexcusable, but there's no reason why they shouldn't try to disrupt a kneel down in a one score game.

ETA: Watching in Ireland, Mark Tauscher (former Packer OL) was working as a studio analyst on our feed. He was adamant that one of the few unwritten rules of the NFL is you don't try to break up a kneel down at the end of the game. Seems like BS to me or maybe his view is just biased as a former OL.


Sorry, Kev, you're wrong.


Great, thanks for letting me know.

I'm not going to excuse dirty play but, by the same token, I wouldn't be happy with my team just lying down before the game's over, while there's still a chance of a fumble and a tying score.


When the tailback lines up 15 yards deep in the backfield, the game is over.

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PostPosted: Mon 09.17.2012, 04:26 
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I dont care much for this "play to the whistle" line of thought. I agree with playing till the end and never say die BUT ... They had four quarters to win the game. Same as the other team.

If you're thinking about winning on a play that has as low a percentage of succeeding (A fumble AND recovery on a QB Kneel) than it does of injuring him (taking a QB out below the knee), despite having the same chances to win it outright that the other team had, then it's a hollow mantra.

If thats the sort of coach he is i can see why other teams snubbed him the chance to approach their staff.

Gerald McCoy wrote:
(On the last play)"We do what we're coached. I'll leave it at that."

Dunno whether what McCoy was saying about the play is true or not or whether the fact that both TBB's new OC & DC (Sullivan & Sheridan) were let go by the Giants and maybe wwere winding up the players pregame for some payback? Who knows.

All well and good saying hes going to get rid of the thug element in the locker room & instill discipline, but what about in the coaching office? :-k


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PostPosted: Mon 09.17.2012, 08:04 
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jamcutpost wrote:
I agree with playing till the end and never say die BUT ... They had four quarters to win the game. Same as the other team.


Jam, I have to say, I respect your analysis around here, but it seems as if you're contradicting yourself with this statement. The four quarters that they have to win the game aren't over in this scenario. To me, playing to the end and never saying die is not what you're doing if you're prepared to give up with time still on the clock just because the other team has decided it is in their best interests to let the clock run out.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating a 'win at all costs' mentality. Cheap shots and targeting knees, etc., have no place in the game. I'll refrain from commenting on Schiano because I haven't seen a replay yet. If the tape shows Bucs players aiming for knees with their helmets as the Giants claimed, then I think fines or even suspensions are in order. I'm just saying I think the notion or 'unwritten rule' that the defense shouldn't rush the line, as they will have done on every single play prior, on a QB kneel play in a one score game is nonsense. What's the point of having all those blockers if they're going to gripe about having to do their job for one more play?

The team with the lead is deciding they're happy with the score and just want the game to end, because, why wouldn't they? But that doesn't mean the losing team should acquiesce to them. Of course, the odds are against them but at least by attempting to rush the passer they're increasing their odds, from basically zero if they don't rush. With the game as close as it was, I see no reason to simply lie down, least of all the fact that your opponent has implicitly asked you to. Why even bother having the QB take the snap if that's to be the case? Just call the game over and be done with it, regardless of what the clock says.


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PostPosted: Mon 09.17.2012, 08:24 
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Bucs coach while better then Morris is also a bigger tool then Morris. Completely classless.

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PostPosted: Mon 09.17.2012, 08:26 
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you don't try to injure a player intentionally, but do you play until the game is over? yes you do. i don't have a problem with trying to get the ball on a kneel down. don't like it? stop them from succeeding at their attempt. it's not like they needed two scores. a fumble and quick TD pass and that game goes into overtime.

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PostPosted: Mon 09.17.2012, 08:31 
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This is no different than the end of an NBA game that has been decided.

When you get into the final 24 seconds, you don't try to score again. You just run out the clock.

Maybe giving up 25 points in a quarter made them lose their minds.

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PostPosted: Mon 09.17.2012, 08:33 
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KevD wrote:
jamcutpost wrote:
I agree with playing till the end and never say die BUT ... They had four quarters to win the game. Same as the other team.


Jam, I have to say, I respect your analysis around here, but it seems as if you're contradicting yourself with this statement. The four quarters that they have to win the game aren't over in this scenario.


Likewise like your posts too and i wasnt calling anyone out over it :)

The point i was making is both teams had the opportunity to win the game WITHOUT resorting to breaking the unwritten rules.

My point was that one team took an opportunity that the other didnt and no other teams do (because its both dangerous & unsportmanslike). Both teams had regular chances in a regular game during regulation tiem to win it outright.

One team took a cheap shot, the other didnt. Play to the whistle, be competitive - but play as men not as thugs.

No contradiction, i promise - but hopefully the lengthier answer explains my point and ive got an example that might be closer to home for you if youve the time (for anyone else it involves soccer, so fair warning and feel free to skip the next bit!)



Youre in Ireland? You watch some EPL, right? Remember Kanu vs Sheff Utd? A throw in that was supposed to go back to the opposition (who had cleared it so that a player could be treated) and went on to set up a goal for Overmars instead?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whO5GAFBp30

Remember when Di Canio stopped play despite having an open goal - and instead of leathering in the volley from the cross, he just caught the ball as he knew the GK was down and out to draw the FK and allow him to be treated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWdf5ZLbtYo

Two examples of players in situations where both teams want to win. One played inside the "conventions of the game" and one outside it. You know what Di Canio's like, would you ever question his desire to win? Arsenal went on to offer Utd a rematch - and rightly so, but can you imagine if their GK or the last defender had got IR'd on that play?

Thats what TBB did. Played against the convention and potentially risked injuring a player - all for a low percentage play.

(EDITED: to dig up the two youtube clips - going back a couple of years!)


Last edited by jamcutpost on Mon 09.17.2012, 08:37, edited 2 times in total.

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