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Cleveland Browns 1999-2012: A Documentary

](*,)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3OQNJdd ... ture=share

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pshh. i'll see ya and raise ya.

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royal flush.
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:twisted: the only scenario that competes for such futility in the long run..granted.. :Drink)
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I had forgotten how snakebitten that entire franchise has been. Especially all the injuries to the draft picks.

Hopefully Chud works out for you guys. I feel for you.
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Lightening has to strike Brownies.. its got to.
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birddog wrote:Lightening has to strike Brownies.. its got to.


They've got some nice young talent there. Actually reminds me a bit of KC. Some great talent in spots, just lacking a QB or coach.
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The fans kind of got what they asked for when the team came back in '99. I remember the "snake-oil salesman" Policy up at the podium talking about winning sooner rather than later. That set the expectation that a consistent winning organization could be built in a snap. Then they proceed to go out and draft a QB first and don't provide him with any tools (line, receivers, etc). The Lerners spent the next 13 years trying to dig out of that hole and keep that promise.

The last thing the Lerners did that may have actually saved the franchise was to bring in someone to totally rebuild the team (Holmgren). Prior to hiring Holmgren, the franchise would have been sold at a loss (original price $500m). In three years he is able to double his profit and deliver to JHIII a "flipped house" with basic decore, amenities, and color scheme (roster, offense, defense under Heckert/Shurmur).

Now this new sheriff in town has talked about "sustained success". Hopefully that means climbing slowly/deliberately out of that hole as opposed to rushing out and slipping back in (KC,DET,JAX,BUF,NYJ)
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emjones2001 wrote:Now this new sheriff in town has talked about "sustained success". Hopefully that means climbing slowly/deliberately out of that hole as opposed to rushing out and slipping back in (KC,DET,JAX,BUF,NYJ)


You do realise our last post season appearance was 1999 yours was 2002. Youre W:L difference is only 20 more losses over those 13 seasons than us.

So what success exactly have the bills had again in this time frame that theyve slipped back again? :-k

Just curious :)
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Griffimo wrote:
birddog wrote:Lightening has to strike Brownies.. its got to.


They've got some nice young talent there. Actually reminds me a bit of KC. Some great talent in spots, just lacking a QB or coach.

Yea, the roster isn't devoid of talent.. and I'd rather have Weeden out there at this point than have a few other NFL starters.. they don't have much of anything of a reliable receiving corp but what they do have is some guys with big potential.. but potential and futures don't just suddenly mature overnight.
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jamcutpost wrote:
emjones2001 wrote:Now this new sheriff in town has talked about "sustained success". Hopefully that means climbing slowly/deliberately out of that hole as opposed to rushing out and slipping back in (KC,DET,JAX,BUF,NYJ)


You do realise our last post season appearance was 1999 yours was 2002. Youre W:L difference is only 20 more losses over those 13 seasons than us.

So what success exactly have the bills had again in this time frame that theyve slipped back again? :-k

Just curious :)


I wasn't defining it by playoff appearances in the BUF case as much as your team being on the cusp and the feeling that the "old man" was starting to go all in. Winning the FA sweepstakes last year was the start of your most recent slide. How many key positional players is that FA class costing?
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getdownmmmkay wrote:pshh. i'll see ya and raise ya.

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royal flush.


You always kind of felt bad for the Browns and their fans, and hoped they'd be good again some day.

The Lions, however, you just laughed at. Loudly.
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Griffimo wrote:
birddog wrote:Lightening has to strike Brownies.. its got to.


They've got some nice young talent there. Actually reminds me a bit of KC. Some great talent in spots, just lacking a QB or coach.

We had some nice talent, especially in the front seven... Then these guys took something that is not a problem and made it one. This transition to the 3 - 4 is just friging stupid.
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emjones2001 wrote:
The last thing the Lerners did that may have actually saved the franchise was to bring in someone to totally rebuild the team (Holmgren). Prior to hiring Holmgren, the franchise would have been sold at a loss (original price $500m). In three years he is able to double his profit and deliver to JHIII a "flipped house" with basic decore, amenities, and color scheme (roster, offense, defense under Heckert/Shurmur).



Holmgrem didn't add any value to the franchise. Inflation helped, but the front office and the players they brought in didn't appreciate the sale price. Perhaps if they had found a stud QB the value might have been affected; as it stands Weeden and Richardson are not valuable enough to increase the value.

There are only 32 of the worlds best man toy's and the ultra rich are lining up to drop a billion for one. The Bills will sell for more than the Browns did when Ralph dies.
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emjones2001 wrote:
jamcutpost wrote:
emjones2001 wrote:Now this new sheriff in town has talked about "sustained success". Hopefully that means climbing slowly/deliberately out of that hole as opposed to rushing out and slipping back in (KC,DET,JAX,BUF,NYJ)


You do realise our last post season appearance was 1999 yours was 2002. Youre W:L difference is only 20 more losses over those 13 seasons than us.

So what success exactly have the bills had again in this time frame that theyve slipped back again? :-k

Just curious :)


I wasn't defining it by playoff appearances in the BUF case as much as your team being on the cusp and the feeling that the "old man" was starting to go all in. Winning the FA sweepstakes last year was the start of your most recent slide. How many key positional players is that FA class costing?


Right so youre talking about something YET to happen ... not something that HAS happened.

We finished #15 in 2010 in the conference, #13 last year, #12 this year.

No slide by any metric.

Cant see what one FA has to do with it, but as far as how its affected us financially? Not at all. Weve got $20+million sloshing around in 2013 in free cap space. Excluding any cuts we might make. Some sites even have it at $30m, so take your pick. We're in good shape either way.

You can call the bills crappy - we are - Just dont say we're sliding. We havent been anywhere to come back down from and we certainly havent been on the cusp of anything for a long, long time ...
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UnderDawg wrote:
emjones2001 wrote:
The last thing the Lerners did that may have actually saved the franchise was to bring in someone to totally rebuild the team (Holmgren). Prior to hiring Holmgren, the franchise would have been sold at a loss (original price $500m). In three years he is able to double his profit and deliver to JHIII a "flipped house" with basic decore, amenities, and color scheme (roster, offense, defense under Heckert/Shurmur).



Holmgrem didn't add any value to the franchise. Inflation helped, but the front office and the players they brought in didn't appreciate the sale price. Perhaps if they had found a stud QB the value might have been affected; as it stands Weeden and Richardson are not valuable enough to increase the value.

There are only 32 of the worlds best man toy's and the ultra rich are lining up to drop a billion for one. The Bills will sell for more than the Browns did when Ralph dies.


Just because Holmgren didn't coach, as many fans wanted him too, doesnt mean he didn't add value to the franchise. There is no debating the franchise was a MUCH better purchase than when he arrived. Lerner didn't want to own the team, so he hired a defacto owner (JHIII slipped and called him that from the very beginning). He got the team ready to sell and he doubled Lerner's money in the process. Sounds like it was worth the $8M/year to get him out from under an investment he really didn't want :-k

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