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I jumped back into IDP leagues this season, after having been disillusioned many years ago. Here are a few random observations on valuing players.

You want a good player, but not always. Sometimes a bad player is targeted by opposing quarterbacks, which allows him to rack up tackles. More targets equals more tackles and more opportunities for interceptions. The best players on a team are only valuable if they don't scare off opposing quarterbacks.

DBs are the most volatile position I've ever seen. Every week somebody explodes. They are almost random shots. Maybe I've overvalued DBs and should select them last.

Often, cornerbacks are even more valuable than safeties. A bad cornerback on a decent team gets the ball thrown his way a lot. Tackles follow.

I can add others as the season progresses. Those are just a few observations.
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I would agree with most of that. However you will never see me starting a CB over a S if I have an option. The CB "might" get you bigger numbers on a given week but good luck making that prediction. Safeties are much more consistent. Collins and a few others are no-brain plug ins every week.
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Im w/you 40. IDP exactly like any Skill position: Sometimes (often?) opportunity trumps ability.

CBs are - because of how they score/ how they work IRL - an "odd duck". Theres no quick fix for this on the horizon, barring some sort of weird mechanic (Snaps / times tgtd or something & even then that data isnt available till Wednesday - no good for live scores).

Youre spot on: CBs can outperform Safeties - and do. Weekly. Its the old chestnut about "High ceiling/ low floor" vs "higher floor/ lower ceiling".

For the most part, there are more consistent scoring safeties than consistent scoring CBs. Especially going from year to year, even at a position that can be as volatile as DB.

Thats changing slightly with the rise of the snapcounts of slot corners & hybrid DBs, but for the most part id be w/Scoot & prefer a cpl steady safeties in the majority of IDP leagues.

Glad to see you come back to IDP tho =D>

It can be a bit of a bugbear sometimes, but vanilla FF just doesnt scratch that itch like hybrid/ IDP does anymore - for me, at least! :)
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scootm44 wrote:I would agree with most of that. However you will never see me starting a CB over a S if I have an option. The CB "might" get you bigger numbers on a given week but good luck making that prediction. Safeties are much more consistent. Collins and a few others are no-brain plug ins every week.


I'm glad I started Cornerback Jalen Mills last night. He seems pretty safe each week. Strong Safety Rodney McCleod is much less consistent. Just an example that comes to mind, based on last night's game. I honestly don't know if it's because he's bad and gets targeted by opposing Quarterbacks, but for my IDP pick it doesn't really matter. It seems counterintuitive, which is why I listed it here in my observations.
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So what's the "secret"? Is it the worse of the Cornerbacks on a team? My Safeties always seem to get a few tackles each week, but the magic interception just doesn't happen with more consistency than a lightning strike, for either Safeties or Cornerbacks. It's the opposite of what I had been taught about IDP DB selection.
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Paul Worrilow was the definition of bad player/good fantasy player during his ATL days. He'd make every tackle but it was usually 5 yds downfield. I'm not knocking him cuz he played his butt off and you have to respect that. Poz is similar but perhaps a little more talented.
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So much to learn! I am just at the beginning, it would appear.
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FortyofForty wrote:So what's the "secret"? Is it the worse of the Cornerbacks on a team? My Safeties always seem to get a few tackles each week, but the magic interception just doesn't happen with more consistency than a lightning strike, for either Safeties or Cornerbacks. It's the opposite of what I had been taught about IDP DB selection.


I cant speak about what youve been taught, so ill only pass along what i know, apologize in advance, and hope it makes some kind of sense on the other side of it!

Cliff notes: Start the DB that will be:

1) On the field most often
2) As close to the LOS/ centerfield as possible


AKA will get the most tkl opps.

If youre getting tkl opps then it means youre around the ball. If youre around the ball, you will get an opportunity to make a splash play (Int, fumble, FR etc)

You dont have to read on. Thats it in a nutshell.

In the "Give a hungry man a fish, feed him for a day ... Teach him to fish, feed him for a lifetime" vein? Ill give you the long-winded, more laboured, historical version of ^^ that - just in case youre struggling with insomnia :)

Used to be, you had your single high safety to mop up any botched coverages (Your "Classic free"), your "Classic in the box Strong" safety (usually pushed rght up with the Lbs because they were a liability in coverage anyway, right Whitner? :F ). Your "Classic shutdown corner" (QBs wont throw to him, so he wont get tkl/ PD/ INT opps) who you wouldnt touch with a bargepole for scoring, but would love on your team IRL. Then there was the "Rookie CB liability" that everyone picked on that you did want to roster (but only for the year) in fantasy, but really, really didnt want starting on the team you spport IRL.

... Thats how things USED to be. What happened?

The game evolved and lines got kinda blurry in a hurry.

In the mid-noughties, the NFL went all college/ spread/ shotgun happy ... Apparently someone killed the RB along the way ("The death of the RB", it was an actual thing believe it or not. People be crazy) and the passing game was king. Defences changed as a result. They had to.

First big thing youd notice was that teams spent more time out of their base D, with an extra DB on the field. The result of spending more time in coverage defending the pass than they used too. The classic, throwback, thumping, run stuffing LB became about as popular as a fart in a elevator, almost overnight.

The next wrinkle after personnel, was that DCs started askign their personnel to be more flexible: Interchangeable safeties, where the free would come up into the box and strong would drop back... the rise of the hybrid safety (Some call it a moneybacker, but its been around a lot longer than that). Your Barrons, Bucannons, Burnett/ Jones' etc Players that started to play amongst the LB so often that they got designation changes ... Not to mention the rise of the SLOT CBs. These Corners were on the field so much, so central for so often, they got reclassified for the most part as Safeties (Lamarcus Joyner, Tyrann Mathieu etc etc)

Jalen Mills, to use your example, is also a slot corner. But, what does that actually mean??

It can get complicated, depending on who you talk to, but in essence it means hes a 3rd Corner/ not one of the outside Corners & it means that Just as a slot WR will work the short middle area of the field, so the slot corner is the reciprocal defensive player to match up against them, or a move TE, or a scat back.

This means theyre in a position to get a lot of tkl opps IF the team either plays a lot of pass coverage OR play a 4-2-5 base D (or similar). Mills being a rookie, just makes it double money.

As an aside, and this isnt something ill belabour (but is important, kinda) if we're discussing CB vs Safety this year, is something that im not actually hearing many ppl talk about.

This year has been really weird offensively speaking early on.

    In week 1, 7 teams scored 13pts or less.
    In week 2, 11 teams did the same thing.

So 18 teams scored 10pts or less thru 2 weeks.

Like i say, havent looked too deeply yet (its early) but you had to get nearly into week 5 to get that many in 2014, 2015 & 2016 (havent bothered going back further yet)

Id be as surprised as you, if that didnt mean there wasnt a spike in IDP scoring in PDs and INTs (and a reciprocal slump in overall QB #'s) for the early going in the season.

^^ This is more a tangent for others, but i mention it here only to suggest im not sure id read too much into CB #'s right at the second. This isnt the norm - or at least hasnt been :)

Norm is: In the box safety > slot corner > rookie outside corner > single high free safety

There will always be exceptions, but hopefully once you wade through what some names mean to some people, itll help you navigate which players you need.
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scootm44 wrote:I would agree with most of that. However you will never see me starting a CB over a S if I have an option. The CB "might" get you bigger numbers on a given week but good luck making that prediction. Safeties are much more consistent. Collins and a few others are no-brain plug ins every week.


Agree.

Dude, that avatar looks familiar, but I can't place it. Where is that from?
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Warhaft wrote:
scootm44 wrote:I would agree with most of that. However you will never see me starting a CB over a S if I have an option. The CB "might" get you bigger numbers on a given week but good luck making that prediction. Safeties are much more consistent. Collins and a few others are no-brain plug ins every week.


Agree.

Dude, that avatar looks familiar, but I can't place it. Where is that from?

Who are you asking?
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scootm44 wrote:
Warhaft wrote:
scootm44 wrote:I would agree with most of that. However you will never see me starting a CB over a S if I have an option. The CB "might" get you bigger numbers on a given week but good luck making that prediction. Safeties are much more consistent. Collins and a few others are no-brain plug ins every week.


Agree.

Dude, that avatar looks familiar, but I can't place it. Where is that from?

Who are you asking?

Its a shame avatars cant be more ... kind of, "ginormous".

Make it easier to see ;)
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Ginormous? I think you mean Humongous. Or should I say Humungus?
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scootm44 wrote:Ginormous? I think you mean Humongous. Or should I say Humungus?


Was trying to drop the hint/ nudge them towards the answer without being too obvious.

Why i couched it as kind of, "ginormous" - and why i put it in speech marks, too.

Couldnt figure out a way to put "Lord" in without basically giving it away either! :D
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jamcutpost wrote:
FortyofForty wrote:So what's the "secret"? Is it the worse of the Cornerbacks on a team? My Safeties always seem to get a few tackles each week, but the magic interception just doesn't happen with more consistency than a lightning strike, for either Safeties or Cornerbacks. It's the opposite of what I had been taught about IDP DB selection.


I cant speak about what youve been taught, so ill only pass along what i know, apologize in advance, and hope it makes some kind of sense on the other side of it!

Cliff notes: Start the DB that will be:

1) On the field most often
2) As close to the LOS/ centerfield as possible


AKA will get the most tkl opps.

If youre getting tkl opps then it means youre around the ball. If youre around the ball, you will get an opportunity to make a splash play (Int, fumble, FR etc)

You dont have to read on. Thats it in a nutshell.

In the "Give a hungry man a fish, feed him for a day ... Teach him to fish, feed him for a lifetime" vein? Ill give you the long-winded, more laboured, historical version of ^^ that - just in case youre struggling with insomnia :)

Used to be, you had your single high safety to mop up any botched coverages (Your "Classic free"), your "Classic in the box Strong" safety (usually pushed rght up with the Lbs because they were a liability in coverage anyway, right Whitner? :F ). Your "Classic shutdown corner" (QBs wont throw to him, so he wont get tkl/ PD/ INT opps) who you wouldnt touch with a bargepole for scoring, but would love on your team IRL. Then there was the "Rookie CB liability" that everyone picked on that you did want to roster (but only for the year) in fantasy, but really, really didnt want starting on the team you spport IRL.

... Thats how things USED to be. What happened?

The game evolved and lines got kinda blurry in a hurry.

In the mid-noughties, the NFL went all college/ spread/ shotgun happy ... Apparently someone killed the RB along the way ("The death of the RB", it was an actual thing believe it or not. People be crazy) and the passing game was king. Defences changed as a result. They had to.

First big thing youd notice was that teams spent more time out of their base D, with an extra DB on the field. The result of spending more time in coverage defending the pass than they used too. The classic, throwback, thumping, run stuffing LB became about as popular as a fart in a elevator, almost overnight.

The next wrinkle after personnel, was that DCs started askign their personnel to be more flexible: Interchangeable safeties, where the free would come up into the box and strong would drop back... the rise of the hybrid safety (Some call it a moneybacker, but its been around a lot longer than that). Your Barrons, Bucannons, Burnett/ Jones' etc Players that started to play amongst the LB so often that they got designation changes ... Not to mention the rise of the SLOT CBs. These Corners were on the field so much, so central for so often, they got reclassified for the most part as Safeties (Lamarcus Joyner, Tyrann Mathieu etc etc)

Jalen Mills, to use your example, is also a slot corner. But, what does that actually mean??

It can get complicated, depending on who you talk to, but in essence it means hes a 3rd Corner/ not one of the outside Corners & it means that Just as a slot WR will work the short middle area of the field, so the slot corner is the reciprocal defensive player to match up against them, or a move TE, or a scat back.

This means theyre in a position to get a lot of tkl opps IF the team either plays a lot of pass coverage OR play a 4-2-5 base D (or similar). Mills being a rookie, just makes it double money.

As an aside, and this isnt something ill belabour (but is important, kinda) if we're discussing CB vs Safety this year, is something that im not actually hearing many ppl talk about.

This year has been really weird offensively speaking early on.

    In week 1, 7 teams scored 13pts or less.
    In week 2, 11 teams did the same thing.

So 18 teams scored 10pts or less thru 2 weeks.

Like i say, havent looked too deeply yet (its early) but you had to get nearly into week 5 to get that many in 2014, 2015 & 2016 (havent bothered going back further yet)

Id be as surprised as you, if that didnt mean there wasnt a spike in IDP scoring in PDs and INTs (and a reciprocal slump in overall QB #'s) for the early going in the season.

^^ This is more a tangent for others, but i mention it here only to suggest im not sure id read too much into CB #'s right at the second. This isnt the norm - or at least hasnt been :)

Norm is: In the box safety > slot corner > rookie outside corner > single high free safety

There will always be exceptions, but hopefully once you wade through what some names mean to some people, itll help you navigate which players you need.


Thanks for the reply. There is a lot to dissect in what you wrote. All I know is that, in the big leagues I ended up in, the pickings are pretty slim. Perhaps in a league where you can pick a few defensive players, you'd be able to be more selective. When I've got to pick two DBs, two LBs, two DLs, and one Flex, in a league with twelve teams and super deep benches, I'm just doing the best I can to get players who are on the field a lot. If I ignore the distinction between a DT and a DE, or between a CB and an S, I actually have a better chance to find value for my starting lineup. When you mix in the unknown that teams constantly slide guys around to fill injury gaps or replace bad players, it becomes very frustrating. Again, much thanks for the information.
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Have you got a link to those leagues, forty?

If you post it, im not too shabby at dumpster diving. Even at this time of year - we've got some other good sharks here who could pitch in w/some suggestions too
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