Mike McCarthy fired

Post Reply  
Megalodon
Posts: 20536
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009
Sand$: 30,746.92
birddog wrote:
jamcutpost wrote:
birddog wrote:Correct.

This comparison isn't the subject, however.


If youre talking about the competitiveness of 2 other leagues (NFC South & North) as being relevant tho?

It kinda is, a little bit - right? :thumbright:
If anyone cares to assess it, I'd read it and respond. Throwing crap on the wall and walking away isn't anyway to conclude anything.

I'll toss a nugget out there for someone to go with. Bill & Brady have seen what? 4-5 since '07? hung 2-3 banners w/a TE & a college QB as #1wr? Playing against the NFC South a few times?


The one statement does not jibe well the other there, BD. Dont shoot me - Just saying.

Cant demand detailed stats data from ppl when youre not prepared to do the same.

Would also suggest that if your point about divisional strength was/is true, then burden more on you to provide it - what "nugget" youve thrown out there? Thats not really much of anything.

Next W for NEP will mark the 15th time - in consecutive years - the Pats have a 10+ Win season.

Take a second to think about that.

Now you can diminish that, or put caveats on it, but not sure youll get very far with it. Its too long a sustained period of success.

Personally still believe that weighting divisions for grading QBs/ Results doesnt seem either v.efficient (or helpful) metric though, so ill probably bow out of this one.
Last edited by jamcutpost on Fri 12.07.2018, 13:04, edited 1 time in total.
_______________________________________

“There is an art to flying ... learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
User avatar
Whale Shark
Posts: 1127
Joined: Tue Oct 3, 2006
Sand$: 3,390.68
Here's a list of some QB's win percentages. Most are all under 1 HC, other than Big Ben who has a season or two under Cowher.

Brady .773 - exception to the rule
Big Ben .673
Flacco .596
Russell Wilson .671
Dak Prescott .644

While these don't prove anything it's interesting that Rodgers is lower than anyone other than Flacco.

10 wins a season is a high standard. But the Packers were almost always considered a front runner to represent the NFC in the Super Bowl from 2011 until 2016.

McCarthy was a good coach. Not great. Not awful. Good. But the upward trajectory ended.
User avatar
Moderator
Posts: 43588
Joined: Sun Aug 2, 2009
Sand$: 24,667.72
pfft, Mahomes .833
_______________________________________

#NewJackCity
User avatar
Megalodon
Posts: 19651
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006
Sand$: 40,989.14
birddog wrote:If anyone cares to assess it, I'd read it and respond. Throwing crap on the wall and walking away isn't anyway to conclude anything.

I'll toss a nugget out there for someone to go with. Bill & Brady have seen what? 4-5 since '07? hung 2-3 banners w/a TE & a college QB as #1wr? Playing against the NFC South a few times?

You mean like I did a few posts before this?
User avatar
Megalodon
Posts: 19651
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006
Sand$: 40,989.14
Further North vs South analysis.

Out of division games since 2009:

North is 215-200-0
South is 217-200-1

Practically identical in out of division games. The idea that the South has been so much better than the North so you cant compare Brees and Rodgers is complete bunk.
User avatar
Supreme Megalodon
Posts: 37343
Joined: Tue Sep 6, 2005
Sand$: 162,135.22
und2006 wrote:
birddog wrote:If anyone cares to assess it, I'd read it and respond. Throwing crap on the wall and walking away isn't anyway to conclude anything.

I'll toss a nugget out there for someone to go with. Bill & Brady have seen what? 4-5 since '07? hung 2-3 banners w/a TE & a college QB as #1wr? Playing against the NFC South a few times?

You mean like I did a few posts before this?
Didn't see it I'll look back and catch up. Been a lil busy.
_______________________________________

"This whole world would be successful if everybody stopped quitting." - Evander Holyfield
User avatar
Supreme Megalodon
Posts: 37343
Joined: Tue Sep 6, 2005
Sand$: 162,135.22
jamcutpost wrote:
birddog wrote:
jamcutpost wrote:
quote="birddoggiedog"
Correct.

This comparison isn't the subject, however.

/quote


If youre talking about the competitiveness of 2 other leagues (NFC South & North) as being relevant tho?

It kinda is, a little bit - right? :thumbright:
If anyone cares to assess it, I'd read it and respond. Throwing crap on the wall and walking away isn't anyway to conclude anything.

I'll toss a nugget out there for someone to go with. Bill & Brady have seen what? 4-5 since '07? hung 2-3 banners w/a TE & a college QB as #1wr? Playing against the NFC South a few times?


The one statement does not jibe well the other there, BD. Dont shoot me - Just saying.

Cant demand detailed stats data from ppl when youre not prepared to do the same.

Would also suggest that if your point about divisional strength was/is true, then burden more on you to provide it - what "nugget" youve thrown out there? Thats not really much of anything.

Next W for NEP will mark the 15th time - in consecutive years - the Pats have a 10+ Win season.

Take a second to think about that.

Now you can diminish that, or put caveats on it, but not sure youll get very far with it. Its too long a sustained period of success.

Personally still believe that weighting divisions for grading QBs/ Results doesnt seem either v.efficient (or helpful) metric though, so ill probably bow out of this one.
I didn't toss it out.

Like I told my 9yr old niece last night as I helped her with her math homework.

Its not my homework. I'll help you, but I'm not going to do it for you.. and show your work.

;)
_______________________________________

"This whole world would be successful if everybody stopped quitting." - Evander Holyfield
Supreme Megalodon
Posts: 54132
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009
Sand$: 13,129.26
Hilarious post coming after Und schooled you.
Megalodon
Posts: 20536
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009
Sand$: 30,746.92
birddog wrote:Like I told my 9yr old niece last night as I helped her with her math homework.

Its not my homework. I'll help you, but I'm not going to do it for you.. and show your work.

;)


That was my point :thumbright:

It was HER homework.

Maybe i misread it, but it looked like YOU are the one saying that divisions make a difference?

... But - again unless ive read it wrong - youre asking OTHERS to do the working out for you and refusing point blank to do it yourself.
Last edited by jamcutpost on Fri 12.07.2018, 14:48, edited 1 time in total.
_______________________________________

“There is an art to flying ... learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
Moderator
Posts: 53977
Joined: Fri Jul 7, 2006
Sand$: 110,170.72
I'm just going to drop this in here.

https://blog.liberationist.org/why-your ... -ae8866173

Do with it or don't what you please...
User avatar
Moderator
Posts: 43588
Joined: Sun Aug 2, 2009
Sand$: 24,667.72
At some point, you need to ask yourself when you should stop engaging with this buffoonery.

The answer is always much sooner
_______________________________________

#NewJackCity
User avatar
Supreme Megalodon
Posts: 37343
Joined: Tue Sep 6, 2005
Sand$: 162,135.22
und2006 wrote:Further North vs South analysis.

Out of division games since 2009:

North is 215-200-0
South is 217-200-1

Practically identical in out of division games. The idea that the South has been so much better than the North so you cant compare Brees and Rodgers is complete bunk.


Soo hypothetically... essentially you'd prefer the Packers had Ponder/Adrian -or- Cutler/?.. Alshon? over Cam/Smitty/Olsen/Dwill or Ryan/White/Julio/Gonzo/Turner ...

Re: more competitive/desireable

What are you selling again, und?.. 'cause I'm not buying that schit.
_______________________________________

"This whole world would be successful if everybody stopped quitting." - Evander Holyfield
User avatar
Supreme Megalodon
Posts: 37343
Joined: Tue Sep 6, 2005
Sand$: 162,135.22
jamcutpost wrote:
birddog wrote:Like I told my 9yr old niece last night as I helped her with her math homework.

Its not my homework. I'll help you, but I'm not going to do it for you.. and show your work.

;)


That was my point :thumbright:

It was HER homework.

Maybe i misread it, but it looked like YOU are the one saying that divisions make a difference?

... But - again unless ive read it wrong - youre asking OTHERS to do the working out for you and refusing point blank to do it yourself.

I made my point(s) clearly w/in the og NO/GB comparison.. someone else tossed out the AFC East team.. then I helped 'em a bit.

Its pretty clear.
_______________________________________

"This whole world would be successful if everybody stopped quitting." - Evander Holyfield
Megalodon
Posts: 20536
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009
Sand$: 30,746.92
birddog wrote:
und2006 wrote:Further North vs South analysis.

Out of division games since 2009:

North is 215-200-0
South is 217-200-1

Practically identical in out of division games. The idea that the South has been so much better than the North so you cant compare Brees and Rodgers is complete bunk.


Soo hypothetically... essentially you'd prefer the Packers had Ponder/Adrian -or- Cutler/?.. Alshon? over Cam/Smitty/Olsen/Dwill or Ryan/White/Julio/Gonzo/Turner ...

Re: more competitive/desireable

What are you selling again, und?.. 'cause I'm not buying that schit.



birddog wrote:Seriously though... lets not pretend. The NFC North wasn't nearly as competitive over the years as the South. Its hasn't really been close.

and with that - Aaron isn't in Drew's 'class'.. So we can stop with the comparisons anytime.


This is your original proposition (which is clear. Very) and one of two posts to which Und was rebutting.

    NFC N > NFC S for difficulty
    Divisional difficulty is a factor in analysing QB Quality

This is your support for it (which is not nearly as clear):

3 teams have made Super Bowl appearances from the NFC South since '07. In that time the Vikings have started 92 QBs. Detroits been Detroit.. and aside from the Bears '07 SB.. they've been, well, a bit of a mess until this season. Thats a fair assertion.

I'll toss a nugget out there for someone to go with. Bill & Brady have seen what? 4-5 since '07? hung 2-3 banners w/a TE & a college QB as #1wr? Playing against the NFC South a few times?


    One of you (Und & BD) has made an effort to channel clear data points at the proposition as a rebuttal.
    One of you has waved at some "anecdotal" (at best, being as diplomatic as i can BD :) ) evidence.

Its Xmas, so lets have a bit of fun :party-smiley-050:

You want ppl to do it for you (and yeah, i understand we're all probs a bit busy this time of year - so thats fair enough), i dont particularly want to (also busy!), but if itll settle things amicably enough, how about a little friendly wager? If not? No probs.

A donation (at your discretion, but no less than $10) to the local dog shelter/ sanctuary of your choice (or another charity of your choice)? Same for me if the data shows youre right.

If that premise works, LMK :thumbright: Ill start squirrelling away a bit of time here and there chipping away at building up the div standings, win %ages, SoS tables for past 10yrs - for both divs and we'll work out what works as fair for determining who wins/ loses.
_______________________________________

“There is an art to flying ... learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
Megalodon
Posts: 20536
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009
Sand$: 30,746.92
Just so im clear about where i am? Anyone wants to say:

    Brees > Rodgers? Fine
    Anyone wants to say Rodgers > Brees? OK
    Brees/Rodgers are equable? Sure

There is no metric for opinions and no matter how much anyone wants to disagree with anyone else opinion, thats the bottom line.

Its a game. Its opinion driven. :thumbright:

But if anyone wants to express any of those 3 opinions but then use divisional strength as a "proof"? Doesnt matter which 1 of 3 is being advocated - its wrong. Even before looking at data.

If it were true, then, logically the proposition would be true of any year any player and any division - not just "recent years", not just those two divs

It also ignores the more fundamental point that situation (ie division strength) is a metric that directly affects W:Ls & stats far more so than talent.

Worth remembering that the Colts played in a weak AFC south for many years. Not sure anyone that would use a proof that would make Manning ineligible (like Brady in AFC E) to be allowed to be considered in Brees' tier because he was in an easy division.
Last edited by jamcutpost on Sat 12.08.2018, 08:38, edited 1 time in total.
_______________________________________

“There is an art to flying ... learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams