Darren Waller OAK TE

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Mako Shark
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55 of 55 snaps? 7 catches on 8 targets? The Kool-Aid is strong!

Actually thinking of seeing if I can pick him up, dropping David Njoku in the process. Njoku is really the only big body red zone target the Browns have, plus his 40" vertical at the combine. Seems like a crazy move to drop him.

Or is it?
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Mako Shark
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Can someone with insight talk about the drug stuff ?

Are we talking Josh Gordon level or young mistakes ?

can either get him or hock and don't want to screw this one up

*edit* moved hock ahead - I'm not dealing with that sh(t
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Vision wrote:Can someone with insight talk about the drug stuff ?

Are we talking Josh Gordon level or young mistakes ?

can either get him or hock and don't want to screw this one up

*edit* moved hock ahead - I'm not dealing with that sh(t


In dynas, Hock

In redrafts, Waller.

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Waller has spoken openly about his drug past.

Waller, whose own life has included a cycle of drugs and alcohol starting at age 16, can relate.

“I like myself now, and that’s probably the most important part if it, just acceptance,” Waller said. “With who I am and what I brought to the table before, it was hard to do that. I was beating myself up in the form of drugs and alcohol. Liking myself is a huge component in my recovery.”

“When I got here, Frank (Smith), the tight end coach, and the front office people made it a priority to meet the player engagement people,” Waller said. “Coach (Tom) Cable helped me find (Narcotics Anonymous) meetings around here. They were doing all they could to make sure I wasn’t doing it on my own. That helped reassure me. I thought, `OK, this is going to work.”

After his year-long suspension, Waller continued using drugs and alcohol before bottoming out after taking pills he believed were laced with Fentanyl. In an open and honest profile in The Athletic while a member of the Ravens, Waller described sitting in his car for five hours, afraid he might die. He’d already been suspended by the NFL.

It led to a heart-to-heart talk with his father, a trip to detox, and then to a drug and alcohol treatment center in Maine. Waller took to the program so well it began to put his parents at ease as they saw changes in his outlook and attitude.

Through group meetings and therapy, Waller began to understand issues in a middle-class upbringing that contributed to his substance abuse.

“Where I was growing up, I wasn’t black enough,” Waller told The Athletic. “Just being somebody who was really smart and really into sports, I was a nerd to the athletes but to the people in my advanced classes I stuck out like a sore thumb. I didn’t feel like I belonged there, either.”

When Waller returned home to Georgia, he attended meetings, worked in a super market stocking shelves and stayed on a path toward sobriety and reinstatement. Last August, Waller was reinstated and the Ravens took him back on the practice squad.“It’s different because my habits support what I’m saying, whereas before I would tell you what you wanted to hear,” Waller said.


Article dated December 2018

Offseason presser with him here

Fair play to OAK for helping him keep his head straight and integrate. Hope they can help Incognito in the same way.

Whether he sticks or folds in FF?

After stacking shelves, being out of the league, facing his problems head on? Ill be rooting for Waller the person, irrespective.
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Great White Shark
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In dynas, Hock

In redrafts, Waller.


Interesting. I think Hock is the better overall player obviously, but Waller is certainly interesting if he'll rarely (if ever) be used as an in-line blocker as Hock certain will.

Hock seems like a better version of Hunter Henry with a well-rounded all around game, but he may have down fantasy weeks when he's being used primarily as a blocker. Some games Henry seems to run only a handful of routes. Hard to make hay on 5 routes and that's why he disappears.

If Waller is getting Engram WR-type usage then I'm in on that.
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Tacks652 wrote:
In dynas, Hock

In redrafts, Waller.


Interesting. I think Hock is the better overall player obviously, but Waller is certainly interesting if he'll rarely (if ever) be used as an in-line blocker as Hock certain will.

Hock seems like a better version of Hunter Henry with a well-rounded all around game, but he may have down fantasy weeks when he's being used primarily as a blocker. Some games Henry seems to run only a handful of routes. Hard to make hay on 5 routes and that's why he disappears.

If Waller is getting Engram WR-type usage then I'm in on that.


Yeah, i dont mind if you prefer Waller in dynasty. All power to you, sir :thumbright:

Im only confused you see Hock as an almost "Certain" "in-line blocker" ... I mean, theyre BOTH getting "WR-type usage" :wink:

Image

I think they are more alike than you think - except TJ has a few more things going in his favour in 2020/ longer term:

DET/Jesse James played 58% of snaps (6th best blocker per pff 2018)
OAK/ Foster Moreau played 55% of snaps
TJ was listed as WR on official lineup
Waller was listed TE
TJ was only on the field for 73% snaps**
Waller was on for 100%
TJ had 9 tgts (20% of tgt share)
Waller had 8 tgts (33% of tgt share)
TJ is 22 (Rookie)
Waller is 27 (4yr vet, 3rd team)

**He ran a route on 71% of Stafford dropbacks he was on the field for

Its probably fair to ask: Would Wallers usage have been as high if JG had had his way & AB wasnt NEP bound?

Certainly true to say DET werent forced into pormoting Hocks usage in any way more than they ordinarily mightve vs OAKs situation, right?

So, if this was week 1 ... as a rookie ... being used as DET wanted from the get-go ... running plenty of routes ... with a guy familair w/Gronk, Watson & AH ... with far more ivnested in him? Im way more excited here.

Im excited for Waller too. DEN a tougher D than ARI, for sure. Really like him this year.

... but between his past, his contract, the AB situation/ OAK O (and will it be exactly the same next season)? Its just that much of a tougher sell to take Waller over Hock if those were the choices given in a Dynasty startup next year, for me, personally anyway :)

If you - or anyone! - prefers waller to hock, long term? I wouldnt be uspet. You good folk may have the right of it. It would be one of FFs nicer problems to have.
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Great White Shark
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Gotcha. Thanks for the extra thoughts.

I was more reacting to you listing Waller as the preferred redraft pickup. Given your write-up it seems to support TJ Hock as the superior option.

I like them both. If forced to choose, I'm leaning Hock given the skill and encouraging usage that you outlined
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Tacks652 wrote:Gotcha. Thanks for the extra thoughts.

I was more reacting to you listing Waller as the preferred redraft pickup. Given your write-up it seems to support TJ Hock as the superior option.

I like them both. If forced to choose, I'm leaning Hock given the skill and encouraging usage that you outlined


My bad, i thought you meant Hock in dynas - Apologies Tacks!

Ill keep Waller for this year shorter:

That OAK D is not good - and just lost a key piece at the back.
The OAK Tkls are ... not good - going to need a lot of quick passes/ shorter routes this yr

DET i think arent exactly a great D yet, or have elite Tkls either, but i do think both are better (at least on paper, time will tell!)

So purely from a volume/ gamescript pov, im erring Waller.

And yeah, i could be "erring" there, and thats fine :)

If ppl own either this yr tho? I dont think most will mind & you mightve been dead on with your OP =D>
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Mako Shark
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Hock over Waller

Too much invested from mgmt side of things

Longer leash on personal issues - redraft and dyna
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Great White Shark
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I liked Hock a lot, but to not burn a waiver and get Waller? yeah, I'll take that. Both still unproven in my eyes. Both still look good in my eyes.
Mako Shark
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I think if Hock is available, you take him. While wary of expecting much from rookie TEs, every so often a guy passes the eye test.

If you have a premier TE (Kelce, Little, Ertz, Engram) great, but if not it's hard to know how to rank Waller. You need someone if you have Hunter Henry, but will probably not dump O.J. Howard so soon. Austin Hooper and Mark Andrews you probably feel good about, and Delanie Walker after last week.

That's right around where I see Waller. Quick question to the tank -- Waller or Njoku? Tough one for me...
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NautArch wrote:I liked Hock a lot, but to not burn a waiver and get Waller? yeah, I'll take that. Both still unproven in my eyes. Both still look good in my eyes.


Both are unproven in the sense that they've each only got one good game on their resumes to this point.

But I think both of their teams have proven how they want to use them this season. Both are clearly expected to be on the field and significant parts of their offenses. Hockenson's the better long term prospect, and should be a good TE1 all season.

But if I have to gamble on one for just this season, and after seeing only one game, I'm taking Waller.
Hock's got competition from legitimate WR's for targets, and isn't going to see the Cardinals defense again.
Waller might already be the best receiving option in Oakland - he certainly looked like it in week 1 - and could be a regular focal point for the passing game. He looked a lot like Jimmy Graham before the injuries when he was the prototypical "too big for a DB to cover, too fast for a LB" TE
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Great White Shark
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He just got dealt for a second rounder in my dynasty
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hard 10 wrote:
NautArch wrote:I liked Hock a lot, but to not burn a waiver and get Waller? yeah, I'll take that. Both still unproven in my eyes. Both still look good in my eyes.


Both are unproven in the sense that they've each only got one good game on their resumes to this point.

But I think both of their teams have proven how they want to use them this season. Both are clearly expected to be on the field and significant parts of their offenses. Hockenson's the better long term prospect, and should be a good TE1 all season.

But if I have to gamble on one for just this season, and after seeing only one game, I'm taking Waller.
Hock's got competition from legitimate WR's for targets, and isn't going to see the Cardinals defense again.
Waller might already be the best receiving option in Oakland - he certainly looked like it in week 1 - and could be a regular focal point for the passing game. He looked a lot like Jimmy Graham before the injuries when he was the prototypical "too big for a DB to cover, too fast for a LB" TE


If Waller is what you described, skill wise, then what is Hock?!

(Sorry IaHawk homer here)

Opportunity?
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Great White Shark
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Ha! I thought he was talking about hock as a Jimmy g.
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Great White Shark
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Losing Henry puts me in the market. Just offered Fitz for Waller. He has Kelce and weak WRs.
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