Were We Wrong About Gruden?

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Mack has demonstrated HoF/All Pro talent till last year.

But this thread is about Gruden. He deserved blame for last year's coaching fiasco and received universal condemnation for his trade decision.

One year later, the pass rush has improved and one of the Bears picks has revitalized the offense despite off-field challenges. The trade is looking a lot better now for the Raiders and Gruden.

Giving credit to Gruden/Mayock/coaches and team for improvement, but going to wait for continued progress in 2020.
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Elmagister wrote:Mack is a HoF level talent. The Raiders having a winning record doesn't change that.


Agreed. We are making the best of a bad idea, however.

Still pains me that we took Ferrell instead of White.
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SJSwarm wrote:
Elmagister wrote:Mack is a HoF level talent. The Raiders having a winning record doesn't change that.


Agreed. We are making the best of a bad idea, however.

Still pains me that we took Ferrell instead of White.

I bet.
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Elmagister wrote:
endzoneview wrote:Kind of crazy but the Bears defense is actually allowing less points per game this year than last year (17.4 vs 17.7) Allowing only 22 yards more compared to last year. If Turbisky didn’t have such an astronomical fall from grace and was at least just competent we’d be having a different Mack conversation

It doesn't suit their narrative and interrupts their back patting.

Yep - I hesitate making assumptions, but I struggle not doing that when the knee-jerk is Mack. The formula to beat the Bears isn't difficult - run the ball, don't make mistakes, and force their offense to beat you. Only two teams have scored more than 20 points on this team and both of them were still done via conservative game plans. The Bears run defense is not good, but that was at least partly by design. They expected to be effective offensively and built the defense with that in mind - better vs. the pass than the run. The Hicks injury then compounded the problem. Their miscalculation all comes back to the offense, which has neutralized the impact that Mack can have.

All that requires to think and talk football and not nonsense though. It isn't fair to lump every Raiders fan in that pile, but there's good reason so many of their threads spiral out of control in here and it has more to do with them than those that then poke fun at them for their web of hyperbolic garbage. You complain about everyone else beating the Mack dead horse...then you are the ones to bring him up again. Twice. Stop talking out of both sides of you mouth. You're winning. You have a GM in place that sure makes it seem like this right track is sustainable. Maybe even enough to save Gruden from himself. Enjoy it. And you'd be even better right now if you still had Mack.
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OarChambo wrote:Yep - I hesitate making assumptions, but I struggle not doing that when the knee-jerk is Mack. The formula to beat the Bears isn't difficult - run the ball, don't make mistakes, and force their offense to beat you. Only two teams have scored more than 20 points on this team and both of them were still done via conservative game plans. The Bears run defense is not good, but that was at least partly by design. They expected to be effective offensively and built the defense with that in mind - better vs. the pass than the run. The Hicks injury then compounded the problem. Their miscalculation all comes back to the offense, which has neutralized the impact that Mack can have.

All that requires to think and talk football and not nonsense though. It isn't fair to lump every Raiders fan in that pile, but there's good reason so many of their threads spiral out of control in here and it has more to do with them than those that then poke fun at them for their web of hyperbolic garbage. You complain about everyone else beating the Mack dead horse...then you are the ones to bring him up again. Twice. Stop talking out of both sides of you mouth. You're winning. You have a GM in place that sure makes it seem like this right track is sustainable. Maybe even enough to save Gruden from himself. Enjoy it. And you'd be even better right now if you still had Mack.


Agreed. We don’t even have a real team yet. Hopefully Mayock nails the 2020 draft too, then we might. But it won’t be because of the Mack deal, it will be in spite of it.

He’s still one of my favorite all time Raiders and I still root for the guy.
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The Raiders ended up making out well in that trade. But so did the Bears. It doesn't have to be about winner/loser. That's not directed at you, Swarm, but the earlier posts.
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SJSwarm wrote:We don’t even have a real team yet. Hopefully Mayock nails the 2020 draft too, then we might. But it won’t be because of the Mack deal, it will be in spite of it.

Not just the draft either. The team will have at minimum $40ish mil in cap space after accounting for draft picks and that doesn't account for all the contracts with $0 dead money should they wish to move on from any of them.
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All of you on this page make good points about Mack/Raiders.

I am guilty of bringing up the Gruden/Mack comp again, so will own it. I did not mean to denigrate Mack or the Bears. I guess I wanted to express feeling better about the trade than last year after the continued doom and gloom last year. That said, I am hoping for continued improvement and that Mayock can continue and have a positive influence on Gruden.

The position coaches deserve a lot of credit as well for coaching the players and especially the rookies despite the litany of injuries, especially OL/DL/TE/DB.
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Elmagister wrote:The Raiders ended up making out well in that trade. But so did the Bears. It doesn't have to be about winner/loser. That's not directed at you, Swarm, but the earlier posts.



Anyone who points to Mack’s 2019 stats as a reason anyone won or lost anything doesn’t get it. He’s still a HOF talent. The Bears just keep getting behind and Mack is getting less pass rush opportunities due to game script.
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OarChambo wrote:
SJSwarm wrote:We don’t even have a real team yet. Hopefully Mayock nails the 2020 draft too, then we might. But it won’t be because of the Mack deal, it will be in spite of it.

Not just the draft either. The team will have at minimum $40ish mil in cap space after accounting for draft picks and that doesn't account for all the contracts with $0 dead money should they wish to move on from any of them.


And next years signees will get the benefit of no state income tax. Might lure some bigger fish than the Raiders normally get. Fingers crossed.
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Elmagister wrote:
endzoneview wrote:Kind of crazy but the Bears defense is actually allowing less points per game this year than last year (17.4 vs 17.7) Allowing only 22 yards more compared to last year. If Turbisky didn’t have such an astronomical fall from grace and was at least just competent we’d be having a different Mack conversation

It doesn't suit their narrative and interrupts their back patting.


Can't blame a Raider Fan after all the flack they received last year.
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tsbgrayghost wrote:
Can't blame a Raider Fan after all the flack they received since 2002.


FTFY
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SJSwarm wrote:
tsbgrayghost wrote:
Can't blame a Raider Fan after all the flack they received since 2002.


FTFY


:lol:
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Grubeman will take the Raiders to the playoffs, eventually.
By the time that happens, well all know that Grubeman and Mayock are not freaking around.
Grinders everywhere.
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This smells like a letdown week for the Raiders. Everything seems to be going right for the them, the defense is notching sack totals left and right. The offense is humming. The opponent has a myriad of Oline and offensive issues in general. On paper, the Raiders should dominate.

But......

I’m always wary of cross country road games. And it’s an early game. The Jets have d-issues but the one thing they can do is stop the run. Thats the one thing the Raiders need to do well to give Carr confidence. When they become one dimensional and ask Carr to carry the team, the dude seems to crumble

This might be the homer talking in me (it likely is) as the Jets have no business winning this game but this has upset special written all over it.

We shall see